michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Mar 18, 2024 9:42:47 GMT -5
Yes it is a serious discussion are a mma fan,wrestling and more sports. The title off discussion is maybe strange read further and find out what I mean?
in ufc,pride etc got woman vs woman and man vs woman see in moves no differts. in wrestling yes see or saw catfight moves like hair whip,boobs bomb etc.
Big question when male wrestler use nose twister,hair mare etc is that allright or do think character is bit queeny? Serious learned fighting from girls in late 60,s can I defend myself yes but thumb lock or finger breaker is not very manly haha.
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Post by Cross Recoba on Mar 18, 2024 14:07:48 GMT -5
Can we seriously either give this dictionary, access to ChatGPT to make sense of his words or a ban? Queeny, really?
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michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Mar 18, 2024 15:59:03 GMT -5
Cross rebcoba you react so how would define a male wrestler who use some moves females use ? a gorgeous george,adriaan street etc were more teasers.
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Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Mar 18, 2024 17:34:39 GMT -5
These days we really don't judge somebody's movelist as being one way or another. If it hurts and works, it's good to go. I think of like Pete Dunne and his finger breaking stuff, it's not really a power move but they still sell it as big pain when it's probably closer to a massage irl. Nothing wrong with that. If a dude has long hair, who cares if it gets yanked?
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Kasper Van Zant
.::XHF Competitor::.
I cannot control you into wanting me
Posts: 74
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Post by Kasper Van Zant on Mar 18, 2024 18:42:17 GMT -5
Exactly why I have Kasper on this platform.
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michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Mar 23, 2024 4:31:59 GMT -5
Kasper discussion is are you open minded as human been? i think many on xhf board are but outside game ?
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Post by CAPTAIN RIGHTEOUS/LADY LIBERTY on Mar 24, 2024 9:24:17 GMT -5
This is Kasper just on one of my many accounts, Michael I'll be right up front..I've thought about it and I'm as open minded as I can be. Now Michael think about it, are open minded?
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michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Mar 24, 2024 13:57:08 GMT -5
i learned how defend myself from girls,has been in fights with girls through my school years. Open minded means also respect for a female.
had edit made a mistake Lady Liberty was european ladies champion between 2011 and 2018 wwaw,britisch ladies champion,bellatrix,rqx. but captain ain,t like your lady liberty.more a rachel ellering type.
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Post by Old Line Jeff on Mar 27, 2024 18:13:34 GMT -5
This is just a random thought.
You all know that headscissor fetish is a thing, right? Like most of you are old enough that you remember seeing the ads for fetish wrestling videos on the back cover of the offbrand wrestling mags they used to have in the 90s?
Well, WCW actually tested out a headscissor gimmick on John Nord of all people on an episode of WCW Worldwide. Can't really say whether it would've gotten over on the main shows, but they never went back to it. And as a straight dude I would've been very happy with watching Miss Hancock and Major Gunns work a match with that particular 'style', but didn't really enjoy watching a guy work it at all.
(Just an aside, John Nord was in a super-weird spot in his 90s WCW run, protected but not pushed. He won all his matches except for one against Goldberg. They tried a few different things with him and then just lost interest.)
But to address Michael directly, sorry man but it's really fucking weird that you're so obsessed with masculinity and femininity and trying to see everything through an "is it manly or is it girly" lens. Like, seriously weird, the kind of weird you ought to have stopped doing yesterday.
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michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Mar 28, 2024 8:46:50 GMT -5
Oldline Jeff first is discussion.second in the e-feds I was,was issue man vs man/woman vs woman but also moves set. third I try share reality like told about john nord.
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Post by Cross Recoba on Mar 28, 2024 12:45:36 GMT -5
I've changed my mind. I would love this to turn into a thesis linking masculinity, gender roles, and John Nord
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Post by CAPTAIN RIGHTEOUS/LADY LIBERTY on Mar 28, 2024 13:26:15 GMT -5
I've changed my mind. I would love this to turn into a thesis linking masculinity, gender roles, and John Nord I am also now open to hear this
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Kira Izumi
J-ROK Staff
XHF's Resident Weeb
Posts: 5,920
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Post by Kira Izumi on Mar 28, 2024 15:09:34 GMT -5
Personally I don't see one move as for girls or for boys. Sure women may of pulled hair and stuff like that, but so can men of their opponents have long hair. Just like women can do many moves seemingly more "manly".
Fun fact women created like over half of the crazy and cool moves we see today. Just in Japan in the 90s and 00s alone. Kyoto inoue with the Victoria driver aka burning hammer, chapirita asari with the sky twister, not to mention many many more.
Also whether it be in real life or especially efedding, men and women can do whatever moves they want regardless of fighting men or women.
It's not so much of manly or girly anymore these days either. Especially considering how prevalent intergender wrestling is on the indies.
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Post by Old Line Jeff on Mar 28, 2024 21:19:19 GMT -5
As requested. Old Line Jeff's Thesis on the Link between Professional Wrestling Movesets, Masculinity, Femininity, and John Nord
Shortly after early man invented the argument, early man invented calling things they found stupid, offensive, inappropriate, or just unlikeable for no specific reason, 'gay.' Shortly after that, homosexuality was invented, and uninterested straight dudes naturally dubbed it gay.
Ironically, it has been demonstrated that the people who are most interested in calling everything gay are frequently the most likely to have homosexual urges they deny to themselves. This started when Professional Wrestling was invented in ancient Greece. They called it Pankration for some reason. They also did it naked for some reason. Judging by the general behavior of homo sapiens, this reason was probably some guy in denial of his homosexual urges came up with the idea, and called everyone who objected gay, which caused them to cease their objections because they didn't want anyone to think they were gay and were willing to strip down, oil up and get up close and personal with another naked oily dude to prove that they weren't gay. The Spartans took this logic a step further. Obsessively militaristic and competitive, they decided that losing in general was gay. Ergo, anyone who lost a Pankration match was also gay unless they died for the sake of their honor. This is why, in modern terminology, the Spartans thought that 'catching' was gay but 'pitching' was actually super-straight.
Two thousand five hundred years or so later, and professional wrestling had come to represent the ultimate paradox of humanity; the time-honored tradition of the assertion of heterosexuality through violence that is itself a spectacle of homoeroticism.
Then some other guy decided that it would aid in their assertion of heterosexuality if they had women dress up in skimpy outfits and learn to wrestle. One of the early female wrestlers was named Mildred Burke. During one competitive match against a male opponent, she was able to apply a crooked headscissor for a submission victory. Naturally, everybody lol'd and called him gay. However, after that, some dude pointed out that watching a woman squeeze someone with her legs was 'actually kinda weirdly hot bro. The logic was as follows - if a chick does it and it's hot, if a dude does it it's gay. Of course, some guys just didn't see what was supposed to be hot about it and called the ones who found it hot 'gay.' Human sexuality is very strange and complicated.
So began the segregation of 'manly' and 'girly' moves. Guys used real wrestling moves like bodyslams and clotheslines. Girls used sexy wrestling moves like headscissors. There were some moves that were kind of in-between. Like when Antonino Rocca invented the flying headscissor. Was it cool because it was fast paced high flying action, or was it gay because it involved a guy's thighs touching another guy's head? Taking this logic to its natural extension meant that 75% of the moves in pro wrestling were gay, which would later lead to the invention of MMA and the popularity of the triangle choke. Which, rather than using leverage and the crook of the knee to apply pressure to the opponent, involves wedging a man's head into another man's crotch. And the cycle of assertion of heterosexuality through violence leading to homoeroticism continues to this day.
In the 1970s two simultaneous tragedies occurred. The first was Fabulous Moolah's role in professional wrestling. Being dumpy and unattractive, Moolah decided to drive more attractive women out of wrestling so that she wouldn't get overshadowed, limiting female wrestlers to moves that weren't actually moves and required no athleticism to execute, such as the hair mare. In fact, for a time women's wrestling actually banned all moves besides the hair mare. The second was Gloria Allred inventing the clitoris as part of the feminist movement. Although initially unrelated to the professional wrestling industry, this would cause a sweeping change of which the effects are still being felt today. Before that, women didn't have sex drives and as such very few of them were interested at all in pro wrestling. However, once women decided that it could be 'kinda hot', it just screwed up the whole damn system. Some of the worst professional wrestlers got their spots high on the card because women thought they were hot. This is why we have the Roman Reigns eternal push - it's all Gloria Allred's fault.
Things continued in this manner. Women's wrestling contained nothing but hair mares, hair pulling, biting, and the occasional sloppy bodyslam. Meanwhile, dude's wrestling was mostly kicking, punching, and tons of steroids and body oil. In the early 90s the Vince McMahon trial caused there to be fewer steroids which in turn necessitated less body oil, but in general wrestling didn't change between the 80s and mid 90s - it was still the assertion of heterosexuality via getting up close and personal with someone of the same gender.
Then came John Nord.
John Nord had three things going for him - he was tall, he was on steroids, and he was muscular (because he was on steroids). However, there were plenty of other tall muscular guys on steroids in the wrestling business, and so Nord failed to stand out in any major way. After spending some time playing a lumberjack in the AWA and a viking in the WWF, he went to WCW. He didn't have any particular gimmick in WCW, but he was big, so they had him wrestle megastar Goldberg on a syndicated show. Nord even got the first move of the match in, knocking Goldberg flat on his back with a big boot. Goldberg went on to win that match, but the WCW bookers noticed something important during this match: To execute that kick, John Nord needed to have a leg. And in fact, all dudes had legs. This was not noticed during the time when it was debated whether or not a guy could use a legscissor and still be heterosexual because all the dudes paying attention were too busy asserting their heterosexuality to notice that men (Zach Gowan and Jasper Tippins aside) had legs.
Having noticed that John Nord indeed possessed two functional legs, the WCW bookers decided to give him a Having Legs gimmick, and they could think of no better way to sell the gimmick than giving him a headscissor as a finishing move. They tried it out on an episode of WCW Worldwide. The live audience for Worldwide, being mostly Disneyland tourists who were herded inside the building Worldwide was taped in, just reacted how the signs told them to. The approximately seven heterosexual men who watched Worldwide, however, didn't like it, and we were still two decades from youtube being a thing and the guys who are actually homosexual and think headscissors are gay and that makes them pretty awesome hadn't started uploading old jobber squashes and pretending they were gay porn to the internet.
Anyway, having noticed that scissor holds were a thing, WCW then gave female bodybuilder Asya a Having Legs gimmick. However, more guys think women with that amount of musculature are icky than think they're hot, so it didn't get all that over. A lack of a woman's division and WCW's terrible booking didn't help, and Asya floated around doing almost nothing and then vanished into thin air, shortly before WCW went belly up.
John Nord was not a pioneer even though he was a lumberjack. However, his contributions in locating the line between homosexual wrestling moves and heterosexual wrestling moves must not be ignored any longer.
After John Nord's time, discussion of the headscissor died off. Weird fetish videos sold in the back of wrestling magazines continued to appeal to some straight dudes. Homosexual dudes did eventually dig into that particular slice of pie too (just ask Tyler Black about his 'green screen days'), but even they think the guys who pretend normal pro wrestling matches on youtube are gay porn are weird. And women mostly have bad taste in men and are more attracted to the scrawny types who'd struggle to make an ant submit to a headscissor than to dudes on steroids.
However, that time Ronda Rousey put Stephanie McMahon in a body triangle scissor while threatening her with an armbar nearly broke the internet, but she wasn't willing to do a headscissor gimmick and since Amanda Nunes was too busy with the UFC to make Ronda do the gimmick, it was dropped.
In conclusion John Nord's pretty cool but fuck Amanda Nunes.
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michael
.::XHF Competitor::.
Posts: 107
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Post by michael on Apr 8, 2024 17:45:58 GMT -5
Thanks Old Line Jeff for history lesson. I believe late 70,s intergender was not the word but mixed. yes World Mixed tagteam belts. Yes read why headscissor and leg scissors been point off discussion if was manly. Like many wrestled my brothers we did the moves bad who saw on tv. armbar,figure four leg lock,mule kick,head lock etc. I did battle off gold yes did moves were close too my opponent feld it sexual nice Why would it?
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