On Empathy and Current Events
Aug 29, 2021 11:03:10 GMT -5
Mongo the Destroyer, Curtis D. Kanyon, and 17 more like this
Post by Dave D-Flipz on Aug 29, 2021 11:03:10 GMT -5
Ok so as we all have figured out by now, some stuff went down on the discord overnight. I've taken the day to think this through (and also deal with sudden stomach and back pain... fun) but I think I can finally put this to paper/screen. Warning: I am not going to censor myself as I usually do in the name of being civil. I am not going to play peacemaker. I just want my thoughts down so you all know where I'm coming from. Note: I do not speak for the other admins and we fully intend to talk this through to make informed decisions. That may not happen right away and it may not be to your liking. If you can't wait? Then I apologize. I have no beef with anyone here and I truly enjoy working with all of you. And if you feel you need to leave to be mentally sound/happy then I won't stop you. Ok? Good then first topic:
I understand that I cannot possibly know what other groups of you deal with on a daily basis. I am not LGBTQ, I am not a minority, I am not a woman, I am not disabled, I am not dealing with PTSD. I'm just a very empathetic person who values being an ally and trying my best to make the world a better place. The most I have had to deal with is being taunted in school and beat up for being "the smart kid". A far cry from any real problems. So understand that while I am going to make some statements and try to see where everyone is coming from ... I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE I am unable to fully put myself in your shoes. And if that means some of this comes off as offensive? I tried. And I am sorry. Never my intention to make anyone ever feel uncomfortable. I am non-confrontational and I like social connections. As an extrovert, I subsist on the energy I get from being with people. But I have never experienced discrimination on the levels you all do. But I have always tried to empathize and understand as best as I am able. I am not an unintelligent person, I am fairly perceptive. Ok warnings out of the way?
Last night (well 2 nights ago now that I spent a night sick), our discord community collapsed just a bit ... lot of bit ... and I know you are all feeling high strung about it. And I know some of you have ideas in your head about how we as admins here should proceed. I ask that you please a) Read my entire post before forming an opinion or acting and b) give us admins a chance to discuss this all. This is a topic that will affect the very future of this place we have built over 20 years so we don't want to take this lightly. So first let me lay the facts out for you all so you see where I am coming from when I make assertions.
1) Mongo is reading Bailey's Al Jabroni RP on the promos channel and quotes a line that is meant to be a joke at Caffrey's expense. The joke is harmless but out of context it was inflammatory.
2) Caffrey got angry and felt slighted and took offense. Was he wrong? No. Did he overreact? Yes, very yes.
3) Mongo calms the situation by explaining the joke to Caff and calming him down.
4) Caff asks a question to defuse the situation and Bloodied Fox replies with a cheap shot at a member who was not even on the discord to see it. Was it called for? Abso-fucking-lutely not. Was it justified? Maybe. There's more to that situation than a lot of you understand.
5) Timeless jumps in to defend his friend and a fight ensues. In this fight a lot of what was said was blatantly homophobic. And I'm sorry if you disagree Timeless but there's no denying it. It was bad. It was uncalled for.
6) Fox leaves the discord and jailings occur to slow everyone down and calm people.
7) People took the arguments to the other channels and wouldn't give us time to assess the situation despite the different time zones and work schedules so Scorps shutters (HOPEFULLY TEMPORARILY) the discord.
8) Some people took the anger out here on the board and those posts were deleted and the people were disciplined.
SO let me tell you what actions have already been taken: This probably won't be ALL that happens but we are trying to go through this calmly to make informed decisions
1) Timeless and Maverick have been banned from the discord. There is no place for the attitudes Timeless spouted and we will not abide by that. Whether you want to see it or not, your words were incredibly hurtful and this is not the first time this issue has been broached. I will swing back to this topic later as I think there is a BIT of unfairness in how this particular instance played out but I want to keep it organized. Maverick meanwhile has been banned a BUNCH of times for trolling and being a toxic presence. I get that a lot of you love him and are friends with him but policing his antics is a chore and a half and this time he took steps AFTER we stepped in and that is not ok. He put up toxic posts on the board, he attacked Mongo personally as we try to sort this all out as outsiders. There was another thing but I'll keep that private for now but I am VERY dissapointed in him for this one as the topic is triggering for a bunch of his close friends here and I urge him to try calming down before posting things in the future. There is NO room for that kind of shit in a civilized society. Will the discord mods let Mav back? Maybe. I don't know. I'm not them. Timeless's ban is permanent.
2) The discord has been temporarily (maybe ...) shuttered. Understand the discord is a place for this family to be together, not a place to pick fights, and not a place to bring your baggage.
3) Maverick has been given a temporary ban on the board for a week. We have said from the start that we will not have these issues from the discord spilling on the board and personally attacking an admin because you don't like the fact that we aren't shooting from the hip is not cool.
4) Timeless, Fox, and the target of Fox's aggression are ALL being spoken to privately to try and get all the info and decide how to handle everything. Give us some time on this as we try to be civil but also do what we need to do for the community.
Ok with the FACTS laid down let me give you where I am coming from. The most common thing I've been PM'd from a bunch of you is "don't two sides this!" Well let me tell you, when Keith popped in with his politicking jab, it was poor timing but it wasn't wrong. Here's how I see it. Were the actions of one side worse than the actions of the other? Yes. Absolutely. No question in my book. Does that mean the other side is clear and shouldn't be addressed? FUCK NO! I am not going to give carte blanche to everyone to be shitty because someone else was worse. That is not how to have a fun time. It's a way to end up with crafty bullies who know how to game the system. This ENTIRE incident was started because of people being shitty to each other. The worst part of all this was INDEED the homophobic comments made in the discord. However ... you don't get to poke the bear over and over and TRY to get a rise from people without dealing with consequences.
Timeless NEEDED to show more restraint and better wording. He was spoken to before it all fell apart by Mongo and still did not back down. This is a problem! We try to help keep everything civil around here but sometimes you guys need to understand how what you say can affect people. THAT SAID ... a lot of you have been taking potshots at Timeless ever since that first incident way back in August last year. Potshots in the discord, potshots in RPs, little digs under the veil of being innocent comments or snide remarks. I can forgive SOME of the ones in RPs because Timeless spun the argument into a storyline in character, but the pettiness on display by this community hurts me. It does. In addition ... this whole argument started because there are a few people here (myself included and for that I apologize) who like to try and get a rise out of certain other members. In this case it was Caffrey. You all KNOW he has a short temper and vanity searches himself. You KNOW this and choose to put in little jabs to try and get a rise out of him. It's not fair. Put simply both Caff AND Timeless have been making efforts to be better and control the anger. Up until now they've MOSTLY done well with that. Which is why we give people chances. We want this to be a fun community and if you can learn and grow as a person then we want to facilitate that.
What this means to me is, this whole argument never happens if Bailey doesn't make his Caff baiting in an RP for no reason. Are we punishing Bailey? No. This was at its heart a tongue in cheek harmless joke that got taken out of context and was explained away before the fireworks. However I am asking, as an admin, as a friend, PLEASE STOP TAKING OOC SHOTS AT PEOPLE! PLEASE STOP TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE MAD FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES! Myself included. No more jabs at Caff or Timeless or Rob or Mongo as people. Attack the character, attack the match, play the room. But stop instigating and getting shocked when the grenade you've pulled the pin on explodes. This argument never happens if Fox doesn't take a cheap shot at another member for seemingly no reason. I understand that this goes deeper and Fox felt justified. But to everyone outside AWF this was COMPLETELY uncalled for and honestly, even to those of us who understand, this was bad form and troll instigation at its finest.
HOWEVER... I cannot deny that once the fire was lit, Timeless was the one pouring the gasoline on it. And that has to factor in. Which is why he's already been banned from the discord. Put simply he has lost his platform to espouse these values that the community has disagreed with, that I PERSONALLY disagree with. But you all also need to understand that every instance of issue we've had with Timeless ... has all been words ... it's all in discord. As someone who's been working with him for the better part of a year now I can say that he had EVERY REASON to bury me, to be hostile to me and h2f. It was us that he was angry with in the first place. It was my match that provoked the incident that let you all see that side. (Though I remind you Timeless stopped that argument quickly and made it into an IC story while the MAIN argument was with VL ... if you all remember). He had every reason to hate me. But he never once treated me poorly. He never once took it out on h2f in her guest spots in SWAT. He has ALWAYS been respectful on the boards and treated our characters with respect. And that goes for other characters too. Never once did he compromise the fed and the fun on the site with any of these values we disagree with. And that has to count for something. Actions speak louder than words and in this case he has been all bark. Now this still NEEDS to be addressed. I agree. We need to discuss this further. But I've found that so many people in this place (Timeless included) love to jump from 0 to 60 with no chill or middle ground. There have been calls to boot him from the site entirely. And I'll be honest ... I don't support that. I think that is FAR too harsh and it hurts a LOT of active members of the site beyond just the offending actor. Now this isn't just me playing favorites. I actually supported giving Drago a second chance. I think time to cool off is good and people deserve a chance to be better. But keep in mind ... Drago and Duke actively hurt the site. Attempts to game the system, to cheat, or to bring down the entire site are hard to get around. Duke had multiple chances and showed he couldn't learn. I don't think Drago has been given that chance. And I think Timeless has actively shown that he was getting better, he was doing things right by all of you RPers on the board. And I think that if the words can't get loose then it takes that sting away. Feel free to disagree in my DMs but if you take away the main offending thing, you can all ignore him on the board just fine. You don't have to interact with him.
I get it. I am not the one being disrespected, I am not the one he insulted. As I said above I cannot know how that feels to get that kind of treatment. But as a former RA, as an empathetic person, as a fucking bleeding heart liberal, I think people deserve the chance to improve. And it is not fair to bait the offense out of someone then point fingers and go "SEE! HE'S BAD!" Because hey ... that same logic would apply to Caffrey. He also gets baited into anger a lot. He also has said hurtful things to people (not homophobic or racist of course but words don't need to target race or identification to be harmful).
Does this mean the option is off the table? No. We are discussing. But I feel it important to remember that everyone is human and everyone has the capacity to grow and get better.
So I want to talk about empathy for a minute. I've noticed that there are quite a few people here who do not seem to use it. I know it's hard to put yourself in the situations of others but ... it's important to civil society. One of the members came to me yesterday afternoon and put it in a very effective form. Fox deals with bigotry every day. Fox, Reck, Ryan, chao etc ... this is their day to day. They get it from every angle. The female members deal with misogyny every day. This world is built to disadvantage people who differ from the "normal". I am coming to you from a place of great privilege. ANd I understand that. It's why when someone tries to vent to you, don't make it a pissing contest. Sometimes they just want a friendly ear not a competition over whose misery is worse or who "has the right" to complain. SO put yourself in Fox's shoes. Someone makes incredibly homophobic statements and doesn't see they've harmed him. They don't understand and refuse to consider they were wrong. This kind of shit festers. And it came out again 2 days ago. And the response? Was the exact same thing, he was shamed for being who he is and told his anger didn't matter, was wrong. Put yourself in HIS shoes and really think. Fox has NEVER been the type to vocally complain about shit in his life. He has never been the aggro angry type. But we can only stomach so much. Imagine being in a position where you are looked down on and made to feel less of a person or like you don't matter. Because to some people? That's the norm. Being told to stop screaming in everyone's face about who you are. But think about that statement. How does one "scream it in your face?" By having a same sex partner? By talking about people of both genders being attractive? By talking about your experience transitioning? By giving a trigger warning for your PTSD to protect yourself? By having the audacity to have a pair of tits and either not showing enough or showing too much (take your pick ...)? By trying to work through your social anxiety?
Obviously this is not something people like me have to deal with. But I see the times we, through inaction, accident, ignorance, or yes sometimes malice, denigrate our own community members. I've seen the disrespect thrown at people like Reck, Fox, Ryan, Chao, Kris, Adrien, H2F, Dunne, Owen, Caffrey, etc. It's TOUGH to call yourself out for being wrong or being ignorant. But you have to be able to acknowledge it. Which is why I apologized (and am again now) to Caff. I shouldn't partake in these games to get a rise out of you. And I apologize. I especially should be held to a higher standard as an authority figure here. And I pledge to do better.
That said ... now let me spin this the other way for you all calling for Timeless's head as well. Because while this is NO WAY equal to the discrimination above, I think it's important to try and empathize as well. You never know where you can find common ground, respect and dignity, or even just a bit of understanding. Now look at it from this perspective. You've been raised your whole life to believe a certain thing. It's been right since childhood. You feel you have good reasons to support your understanding and the local culture does nothing to tell you anything different. Now imagine you find a new community and suddenly everyone is doing things differently. It's scary. It's not how you understood things. And you TRY to understand. You put in the effort to be fair to everyone in your own place. And then someone does something that just breaks that logic in your head and you get angry and say some of those things out loud. Suddenly everyone is ganging up on you. And they're calling for your head. Instead of trying to foster discussion, it's all malicious. It's all my way or the highway. You aren't going to be swayed or try to learn from these people are you? They're all just yelling and baying for blood. And then they constantly try and provoke you for no reason. But you hold it all inside. And then someone accuses your good friend you've known forever of this same problem and you never saw it. ... Sounds familiar yes? I'm not trying to excuse what Timeless said. I'm not. Again as a bleeding heart liberal I think he is wrong as fuck. But you need to understand cultural, generational differences. And you need to know how to fucking talk to people. You can't come at an issue with aggression and malice and expect a change. We all saw how well that works with Trumpers. They batten down the hatches and buckle down harder. So when you think of how you think someone should be punished maybe you SHOULD try to look at it from both sides and understand a bit. You don't have to EQUATE the sides. It is entirely possible for someone to be majorly in the wrong, but there can be extenuating circumstances.
We all need to do a better job of empathizing. You all have a habit of coming down on us global admins for not just cowtowing to your demands and telling us how you are right and we are wrong. But that doesn't foster discussion. it doesn't facilitate real change. And it certainly doesn't paint you in a good light. DO you know how many changes I've gotten that Mongo had denied because you came at him like you knew what's best, but I spoke to him and laid out the argument in rational terms like a friend, like a fellow community member? I get it. You were disrespected. You want blood. But Please PLEASE think this through like adults and put yourself in their shoes.
But to bring it back to that community member who I mentioned earlier? This game, they said, is an escape. For people who get misogyny and homophobia and racism and discrimination in their everyday ... they want to escape that here. And we need to understand that this is a FUN HOBBY! We all want to just have some fun pretending to wrestle. We want to talk to people with a similar interest and shared desire to entertain and be entertained. Nobody cares if in "the real world" Blake Lively couldn't outwrestle Brock Lesnar. It's a game. It's a WRITING exercise. It's creative writing. We all suspend our disbelief. ANd on the other side we all share this place and need to treat each other right. We need to understand that people deal with shit. RLCF right? So why when someone tells you their real experience and asks you to stop, to please respect them, why do we falter?
In conclusion ... I don't know if what the admins end up doing will be what you all want. I don't know if there's anything we CAN do in this scenario to please people. But we're trying. The kind of talk that was on display cannot and will not be tolerated. There is no place here for homophobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc. I will no longer stand by if people are ripping on each other for shit they should not deal with. Race, Religion, Gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, etc. If anyone wants to talk to me my DMs are open here, friend me on discord, if you have me on facebook hit me up there. I strive to be an ally and a safe space. But please understand that emotions are running high and we will not take an action based on anger and emotion. It's not fair. We need to judge where the offense took place and what it was. I personally don't want to see Timeless banned from the board. But there has to be some discipline. And a message sent that this will not fly again. But respect the fact that up to this point it has been ONLY words and arguments. I know they are hurtful. But do you really think the entirety of SWAT should be punished? Maybe you do. But he has already been deplatformed. He will no longer be able to say those things to you. And he doesn't deserve to be given death threats, messages of violence, etc. You don't respond to aggression with worse aggression. It never works well. Escalation is never the answer. Be it violent messages, behind the back attempts to poison the opinions of his fed members, what have you. And I encourage you to remember that there is a way for multiple people to be wrong all at the same time. This is not me saying the offenses were equal on both sides. As I stated, Timeless was BY FAR in the wrong. But you can still be part of the problem and can learn from this too.
Thanks for your time and I hope you all understand me a bit more based on this. Peace and love,
Dave D-Flipz
I understand that I cannot possibly know what other groups of you deal with on a daily basis. I am not LGBTQ, I am not a minority, I am not a woman, I am not disabled, I am not dealing with PTSD. I'm just a very empathetic person who values being an ally and trying my best to make the world a better place. The most I have had to deal with is being taunted in school and beat up for being "the smart kid". A far cry from any real problems. So understand that while I am going to make some statements and try to see where everyone is coming from ... I FULLY ACKNOWLEDGE I am unable to fully put myself in your shoes. And if that means some of this comes off as offensive? I tried. And I am sorry. Never my intention to make anyone ever feel uncomfortable. I am non-confrontational and I like social connections. As an extrovert, I subsist on the energy I get from being with people. But I have never experienced discrimination on the levels you all do. But I have always tried to empathize and understand as best as I am able. I am not an unintelligent person, I am fairly perceptive. Ok warnings out of the way?
Last night (well 2 nights ago now that I spent a night sick), our discord community collapsed just a bit ... lot of bit ... and I know you are all feeling high strung about it. And I know some of you have ideas in your head about how we as admins here should proceed. I ask that you please a) Read my entire post before forming an opinion or acting and b) give us admins a chance to discuss this all. This is a topic that will affect the very future of this place we have built over 20 years so we don't want to take this lightly. So first let me lay the facts out for you all so you see where I am coming from when I make assertions.
1) Mongo is reading Bailey's Al Jabroni RP on the promos channel and quotes a line that is meant to be a joke at Caffrey's expense. The joke is harmless but out of context it was inflammatory.
2) Caffrey got angry and felt slighted and took offense. Was he wrong? No. Did he overreact? Yes, very yes.
3) Mongo calms the situation by explaining the joke to Caff and calming him down.
4) Caff asks a question to defuse the situation and Bloodied Fox replies with a cheap shot at a member who was not even on the discord to see it. Was it called for? Abso-fucking-lutely not. Was it justified? Maybe. There's more to that situation than a lot of you understand.
5) Timeless jumps in to defend his friend and a fight ensues. In this fight a lot of what was said was blatantly homophobic. And I'm sorry if you disagree Timeless but there's no denying it. It was bad. It was uncalled for.
6) Fox leaves the discord and jailings occur to slow everyone down and calm people.
7) People took the arguments to the other channels and wouldn't give us time to assess the situation despite the different time zones and work schedules so Scorps shutters (HOPEFULLY TEMPORARILY) the discord.
8) Some people took the anger out here on the board and those posts were deleted and the people were disciplined.
SO let me tell you what actions have already been taken: This probably won't be ALL that happens but we are trying to go through this calmly to make informed decisions
1) Timeless and Maverick have been banned from the discord. There is no place for the attitudes Timeless spouted and we will not abide by that. Whether you want to see it or not, your words were incredibly hurtful and this is not the first time this issue has been broached. I will swing back to this topic later as I think there is a BIT of unfairness in how this particular instance played out but I want to keep it organized. Maverick meanwhile has been banned a BUNCH of times for trolling and being a toxic presence. I get that a lot of you love him and are friends with him but policing his antics is a chore and a half and this time he took steps AFTER we stepped in and that is not ok. He put up toxic posts on the board, he attacked Mongo personally as we try to sort this all out as outsiders. There was another thing but I'll keep that private for now but I am VERY dissapointed in him for this one as the topic is triggering for a bunch of his close friends here and I urge him to try calming down before posting things in the future. There is NO room for that kind of shit in a civilized society. Will the discord mods let Mav back? Maybe. I don't know. I'm not them. Timeless's ban is permanent.
2) The discord has been temporarily (maybe ...) shuttered. Understand the discord is a place for this family to be together, not a place to pick fights, and not a place to bring your baggage.
3) Maverick has been given a temporary ban on the board for a week. We have said from the start that we will not have these issues from the discord spilling on the board and personally attacking an admin because you don't like the fact that we aren't shooting from the hip is not cool.
4) Timeless, Fox, and the target of Fox's aggression are ALL being spoken to privately to try and get all the info and decide how to handle everything. Give us some time on this as we try to be civil but also do what we need to do for the community.
Ok with the FACTS laid down let me give you where I am coming from. The most common thing I've been PM'd from a bunch of you is "don't two sides this!" Well let me tell you, when Keith popped in with his politicking jab, it was poor timing but it wasn't wrong. Here's how I see it. Were the actions of one side worse than the actions of the other? Yes. Absolutely. No question in my book. Does that mean the other side is clear and shouldn't be addressed? FUCK NO! I am not going to give carte blanche to everyone to be shitty because someone else was worse. That is not how to have a fun time. It's a way to end up with crafty bullies who know how to game the system. This ENTIRE incident was started because of people being shitty to each other. The worst part of all this was INDEED the homophobic comments made in the discord. However ... you don't get to poke the bear over and over and TRY to get a rise from people without dealing with consequences.
Timeless NEEDED to show more restraint and better wording. He was spoken to before it all fell apart by Mongo and still did not back down. This is a problem! We try to help keep everything civil around here but sometimes you guys need to understand how what you say can affect people. THAT SAID ... a lot of you have been taking potshots at Timeless ever since that first incident way back in August last year. Potshots in the discord, potshots in RPs, little digs under the veil of being innocent comments or snide remarks. I can forgive SOME of the ones in RPs because Timeless spun the argument into a storyline in character, but the pettiness on display by this community hurts me. It does. In addition ... this whole argument started because there are a few people here (myself included and for that I apologize) who like to try and get a rise out of certain other members. In this case it was Caffrey. You all KNOW he has a short temper and vanity searches himself. You KNOW this and choose to put in little jabs to try and get a rise out of him. It's not fair. Put simply both Caff AND Timeless have been making efforts to be better and control the anger. Up until now they've MOSTLY done well with that. Which is why we give people chances. We want this to be a fun community and if you can learn and grow as a person then we want to facilitate that.
What this means to me is, this whole argument never happens if Bailey doesn't make his Caff baiting in an RP for no reason. Are we punishing Bailey? No. This was at its heart a tongue in cheek harmless joke that got taken out of context and was explained away before the fireworks. However I am asking, as an admin, as a friend, PLEASE STOP TAKING OOC SHOTS AT PEOPLE! PLEASE STOP TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE MAD FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES! Myself included. No more jabs at Caff or Timeless or Rob or Mongo as people. Attack the character, attack the match, play the room. But stop instigating and getting shocked when the grenade you've pulled the pin on explodes. This argument never happens if Fox doesn't take a cheap shot at another member for seemingly no reason. I understand that this goes deeper and Fox felt justified. But to everyone outside AWF this was COMPLETELY uncalled for and honestly, even to those of us who understand, this was bad form and troll instigation at its finest.
HOWEVER... I cannot deny that once the fire was lit, Timeless was the one pouring the gasoline on it. And that has to factor in. Which is why he's already been banned from the discord. Put simply he has lost his platform to espouse these values that the community has disagreed with, that I PERSONALLY disagree with. But you all also need to understand that every instance of issue we've had with Timeless ... has all been words ... it's all in discord. As someone who's been working with him for the better part of a year now I can say that he had EVERY REASON to bury me, to be hostile to me and h2f. It was us that he was angry with in the first place. It was my match that provoked the incident that let you all see that side. (Though I remind you Timeless stopped that argument quickly and made it into an IC story while the MAIN argument was with VL ... if you all remember). He had every reason to hate me. But he never once treated me poorly. He never once took it out on h2f in her guest spots in SWAT. He has ALWAYS been respectful on the boards and treated our characters with respect. And that goes for other characters too. Never once did he compromise the fed and the fun on the site with any of these values we disagree with. And that has to count for something. Actions speak louder than words and in this case he has been all bark. Now this still NEEDS to be addressed. I agree. We need to discuss this further. But I've found that so many people in this place (Timeless included) love to jump from 0 to 60 with no chill or middle ground. There have been calls to boot him from the site entirely. And I'll be honest ... I don't support that. I think that is FAR too harsh and it hurts a LOT of active members of the site beyond just the offending actor. Now this isn't just me playing favorites. I actually supported giving Drago a second chance. I think time to cool off is good and people deserve a chance to be better. But keep in mind ... Drago and Duke actively hurt the site. Attempts to game the system, to cheat, or to bring down the entire site are hard to get around. Duke had multiple chances and showed he couldn't learn. I don't think Drago has been given that chance. And I think Timeless has actively shown that he was getting better, he was doing things right by all of you RPers on the board. And I think that if the words can't get loose then it takes that sting away. Feel free to disagree in my DMs but if you take away the main offending thing, you can all ignore him on the board just fine. You don't have to interact with him.
I get it. I am not the one being disrespected, I am not the one he insulted. As I said above I cannot know how that feels to get that kind of treatment. But as a former RA, as an empathetic person, as a fucking bleeding heart liberal, I think people deserve the chance to improve. And it is not fair to bait the offense out of someone then point fingers and go "SEE! HE'S BAD!" Because hey ... that same logic would apply to Caffrey. He also gets baited into anger a lot. He also has said hurtful things to people (not homophobic or racist of course but words don't need to target race or identification to be harmful).
Does this mean the option is off the table? No. We are discussing. But I feel it important to remember that everyone is human and everyone has the capacity to grow and get better.
So I want to talk about empathy for a minute. I've noticed that there are quite a few people here who do not seem to use it. I know it's hard to put yourself in the situations of others but ... it's important to civil society. One of the members came to me yesterday afternoon and put it in a very effective form. Fox deals with bigotry every day. Fox, Reck, Ryan, chao etc ... this is their day to day. They get it from every angle. The female members deal with misogyny every day. This world is built to disadvantage people who differ from the "normal". I am coming to you from a place of great privilege. ANd I understand that. It's why when someone tries to vent to you, don't make it a pissing contest. Sometimes they just want a friendly ear not a competition over whose misery is worse or who "has the right" to complain. SO put yourself in Fox's shoes. Someone makes incredibly homophobic statements and doesn't see they've harmed him. They don't understand and refuse to consider they were wrong. This kind of shit festers. And it came out again 2 days ago. And the response? Was the exact same thing, he was shamed for being who he is and told his anger didn't matter, was wrong. Put yourself in HIS shoes and really think. Fox has NEVER been the type to vocally complain about shit in his life. He has never been the aggro angry type. But we can only stomach so much. Imagine being in a position where you are looked down on and made to feel less of a person or like you don't matter. Because to some people? That's the norm. Being told to stop screaming in everyone's face about who you are. But think about that statement. How does one "scream it in your face?" By having a same sex partner? By talking about people of both genders being attractive? By talking about your experience transitioning? By giving a trigger warning for your PTSD to protect yourself? By having the audacity to have a pair of tits and either not showing enough or showing too much (take your pick ...)? By trying to work through your social anxiety?
Obviously this is not something people like me have to deal with. But I see the times we, through inaction, accident, ignorance, or yes sometimes malice, denigrate our own community members. I've seen the disrespect thrown at people like Reck, Fox, Ryan, Chao, Kris, Adrien, H2F, Dunne, Owen, Caffrey, etc. It's TOUGH to call yourself out for being wrong or being ignorant. But you have to be able to acknowledge it. Which is why I apologized (and am again now) to Caff. I shouldn't partake in these games to get a rise out of you. And I apologize. I especially should be held to a higher standard as an authority figure here. And I pledge to do better.
That said ... now let me spin this the other way for you all calling for Timeless's head as well. Because while this is NO WAY equal to the discrimination above, I think it's important to try and empathize as well. You never know where you can find common ground, respect and dignity, or even just a bit of understanding. Now look at it from this perspective. You've been raised your whole life to believe a certain thing. It's been right since childhood. You feel you have good reasons to support your understanding and the local culture does nothing to tell you anything different. Now imagine you find a new community and suddenly everyone is doing things differently. It's scary. It's not how you understood things. And you TRY to understand. You put in the effort to be fair to everyone in your own place. And then someone does something that just breaks that logic in your head and you get angry and say some of those things out loud. Suddenly everyone is ganging up on you. And they're calling for your head. Instead of trying to foster discussion, it's all malicious. It's all my way or the highway. You aren't going to be swayed or try to learn from these people are you? They're all just yelling and baying for blood. And then they constantly try and provoke you for no reason. But you hold it all inside. And then someone accuses your good friend you've known forever of this same problem and you never saw it. ... Sounds familiar yes? I'm not trying to excuse what Timeless said. I'm not. Again as a bleeding heart liberal I think he is wrong as fuck. But you need to understand cultural, generational differences. And you need to know how to fucking talk to people. You can't come at an issue with aggression and malice and expect a change. We all saw how well that works with Trumpers. They batten down the hatches and buckle down harder. So when you think of how you think someone should be punished maybe you SHOULD try to look at it from both sides and understand a bit. You don't have to EQUATE the sides. It is entirely possible for someone to be majorly in the wrong, but there can be extenuating circumstances.
We all need to do a better job of empathizing. You all have a habit of coming down on us global admins for not just cowtowing to your demands and telling us how you are right and we are wrong. But that doesn't foster discussion. it doesn't facilitate real change. And it certainly doesn't paint you in a good light. DO you know how many changes I've gotten that Mongo had denied because you came at him like you knew what's best, but I spoke to him and laid out the argument in rational terms like a friend, like a fellow community member? I get it. You were disrespected. You want blood. But Please PLEASE think this through like adults and put yourself in their shoes.
But to bring it back to that community member who I mentioned earlier? This game, they said, is an escape. For people who get misogyny and homophobia and racism and discrimination in their everyday ... they want to escape that here. And we need to understand that this is a FUN HOBBY! We all want to just have some fun pretending to wrestle. We want to talk to people with a similar interest and shared desire to entertain and be entertained. Nobody cares if in "the real world" Blake Lively couldn't outwrestle Brock Lesnar. It's a game. It's a WRITING exercise. It's creative writing. We all suspend our disbelief. ANd on the other side we all share this place and need to treat each other right. We need to understand that people deal with shit. RLCF right? So why when someone tells you their real experience and asks you to stop, to please respect them, why do we falter?
In conclusion ... I don't know if what the admins end up doing will be what you all want. I don't know if there's anything we CAN do in this scenario to please people. But we're trying. The kind of talk that was on display cannot and will not be tolerated. There is no place here for homophobia, sexism, racism, ableism, etc. I will no longer stand by if people are ripping on each other for shit they should not deal with. Race, Religion, Gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, etc. If anyone wants to talk to me my DMs are open here, friend me on discord, if you have me on facebook hit me up there. I strive to be an ally and a safe space. But please understand that emotions are running high and we will not take an action based on anger and emotion. It's not fair. We need to judge where the offense took place and what it was. I personally don't want to see Timeless banned from the board. But there has to be some discipline. And a message sent that this will not fly again. But respect the fact that up to this point it has been ONLY words and arguments. I know they are hurtful. But do you really think the entirety of SWAT should be punished? Maybe you do. But he has already been deplatformed. He will no longer be able to say those things to you. And he doesn't deserve to be given death threats, messages of violence, etc. You don't respond to aggression with worse aggression. It never works well. Escalation is never the answer. Be it violent messages, behind the back attempts to poison the opinions of his fed members, what have you. And I encourage you to remember that there is a way for multiple people to be wrong all at the same time. This is not me saying the offenses were equal on both sides. As I stated, Timeless was BY FAR in the wrong. But you can still be part of the problem and can learn from this too.
Thanks for your time and I hope you all understand me a bit more based on this. Peace and love,
Dave D-Flipz