Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Jun 20, 2017 4:58:46 GMT -5
I would consider natural selection to be a type of evolution. Us manipulating genetics I would consider a different type of evolution. Mutation would also be a type of evolution.
If we’re defining evolution as “change over time” that makes perfect sense, K-Dawg.
However, based on scientists thoughts on evolution, we have not been around long enough to view a natural evolution of something. Even with the bacteria which grow at such a quick rate, all that we've been studying since we've known about them, we've never seen a bacteria evolve from one genus (I think that's the right one?) to another. Sorry, DT probably knows that stuff better than I. We've certainly modified things ourselves, for better or worse. In another case, we've never found "the missing link" between monkeys and man.
This is one of the major arguments that come up in opposition to evolution. The somewhat “faith-based” answer that evolutionists give is that given enough time evolution works. But that answer isn’t really answering anything since it’s just an assumption that is theoretically impossible to study without millions of years.
We're 97% similar, and we've seen the type of man we naturally selectedly evolved from, but that one key jump is still missing.
I might be talking somewhat out of my butt, I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that that statistic is either inaccurate in itself, or is at least presented in an inaccurate way. I think we’re equally similar to mice (from a DNA standpoint). But nobody is claiming we came from them, lol
And considering we've found dino bones, we should have found that by now. But that's not to say natural selection hasn't modified something from one to the other over a long period of time, bit by bit. Like DT said, we have seen the evidence from little reptile through to the T-Rex. But you couldn't give someone a Raptor and say "now turn this into a T-Rex." They're similar, but not the same enough to evolve from one to the other. ...I hope that makes sense.
Darwin actually theorized that as we continued digging and studying, we’d find tons of in-between forms of animals. But that hasn’t happened yet, at least not on any sort of a believable scale.
Another thing is, it's stated God created us in him image. But at the end of the day, he's not taking our bodies to Heaven, he's taking our spirits. I could be reading between the lines too much, but what I've heard that makes more sense to me, is that our souls are what is created in his image, not our flesh and bone.
Ooh, this comes up a couple times in the Bible. Yeah, we’re supposed to get new bodies in heaven (based on our current ones; I think it’s kind of like inside and outside the Matrix). In his original language, Paul frequently refers to our sin nature as our “flesh.” The meaning then being that our bodies are infested with sin and death; and therefore unfit to enter heaven. Our souls though- totes cool with J-man on our side. To this end Paul wrote, “For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life” (2 Corinthians 5:4). That is to say, our bodies are about as good as tents, they’re lightweight and easily damaged, but hold us anyway. We don’t want to lose our tent (die), but at the same time Christians realize that heaven is a million times better and would rather be there (with new, less crap-filled bodies).
And another thing, (being that I'm an artist, it makes a lot of sense to me too) the reason a lot of mammals share our bone structure is because that's God's "art" style. You can recognize a Picaso when you see it because he has a certain style, a certain brush stroke, a way he likes to present art. God picked a certain style to design creatures on Earth, and so he kept going with that structure.
Oh wow, this is actually the same thing I’ve heard creationists claim, lol. The idea, yeah, is that the reason why most life on earth looks so similar is that it’s God’s hand being shown, sort of like his signature or style. I think you could probably get a good hobby (late-stage career?) out of studying creation science, lol.
The dinosaurs, I don't know. I don't think they survived when man did. I don't know if it was a test run, or maybe He knew we'd need them around so long ago in order for us to have oil now, or what. But they did exist, and whichever ones were left after the meteor somehow became birds.
Ok, so I have a confession to make, I’m super into dinosaurs, lol. After my conversion, I was totally on board the Jesus train (I needed that forgiveness, yo)- but there was still one thing I couldn’t get my head around: dinosaurs. But then about a day or two later, I was trying to find English, ANY ENGLISH, on the Bible channels here and I stumbled upon a small, low-budget, show that was filmed out of Canada that had somehow been imported to Korea and given Korean subtitles. It was a show about creation science; and the episode that was on that day? Dinosaurs. I’ve since found the website for the show (which is actually to promote a magazine, lol) and they have all the episodes archived as well as a whole bunch of mini webisodes if you dudes are interested in that sort of thing.
Anyway! The prevailing theory among creationists is that most dinosaurs went extinct after the flood (well, you know, aside from the gobs and gobs that died in the flood). The reasons are twofold 1) climate change (the global flood probably would have triggered a mini ice age) 2) hunting. Up until the flood, God had expected the creation to be vegetarian (since before the fall there was no death and after….well I guess it hadn’t come up formally); but after Noah and his family got off the ark the Lord officially said it was ok to eat animals. Dinosaurs are big; and probably a good food source. BUT, some species may have survived beyond that. Most cultures around the world have dragon stories, evolutionists explain that this is because there’s some sort of imprinted dinosaur memory carried over from our early mammal brains- but it’d make more sense if some dinosaurs happened to survive in a few places; making them a terrifying but rare sight.
But why won’t creationists let dinosaurs exist and die before creation? This comes down to the gospel message. As it is written in the Bible, Adam and Eve doomed creation by eating the fruit God told them not to eat. The punishment for this was death. Now, this is a world-changing thing because theoretically death didn’t exist before the fall. So by Adam and Eve eating the fruit, death was added to the equation in creation- thus royally messing everything up. It is only through Jesus though that redemption is found- he’s our loophole out of death. Without the fall though, the gospel message doesn’t make much sense- because what is Jesus redeeming us from? So if dinosaurs did exist and die before Adam and Eve, then it suggests that Jesus’ death didn’t really do anything and we’re all only face with nothingness after death.
Also the probability of stars existing out of nothing, just the stars, is astronomically small (Pun intended). And then of course, planets forming is more so, and then life forming, and then conscious life forming. I don't know all the numbers, but I've heard them, and it's mind blowing. I know a lot of people look at the grand-ness of the universe and think they're an insignificant little speck, but I prefer to look at it as how amazing it is that I'm alive to enjoy it and take it all in.
Holy crap yes! It’s one of the coolest things about our universe. No matter how far out we look, there’s always something more to see, and no matter how small we search there’s always something new to discover! My journey back to faith actually started in 2008-2009 just by looking out at the beautiful mountains and stuff every day when I left my house.
I have however read the King James cover to cover, a long time ago, but I remember bits. I forgot about the bag of dicks though. But I do know God has a sense of humor because the platypus exists.
Oof, King James; was it some kind of a modern version or were they trying to cram in “thy”s and “thine”s everywhere (as the King James is known for)?
The bag of dicks story can be found in 1 Samuel 18:20-27. On closer inspection, there is no actual bag mentioned; but really, how else are you going to transport 200 foreskins? I’m seriously asking, NMM? Harry? Scorps? This seems like the sort of antics an XHFer would pull.
I love the story of the platypus. The first one that scientists sent back to England was thought to be a prank and poorly photoshop- er- taxoshopped(?) taxodermed(?) hoax. We all laugh together at the egg-laying, duck-billed, mammalian, and also venomous platypus.
With this said, if I did acknowledge that God is real, he most certainly is a god I would worship. God - someone who got pissed off at a couple for eating an apple... SO PISSED OFF that he would punish the entire future of this species to long and arduous working and painful/deadly pregnancies. The kind of god who would invent something like childhood cancer. This isn't a loving god. It's an omnipotent jerk with a sick sense of humor.
I absolutely understand your feelings Kuroi. And quite honestly there are no real good explanations. Some of the stuff you brought up (like cancer) is a side-effect of death coming into the world. Literally everything is in decay; even the earth itself due to the death code being entered into the program. Diseases and evil spring out of that decay.
The fact that we have to work and sweat and pregnancies are painful as all get out though- yeah those seem like a bit of overkill, lol. Again, the arduous working (from an agricultural sense) is probably largely a product of creation-wide decay. But the pregnancy thing- well, luckily medical science actually cares about making that better.
What kind of God though allows so much suffering and wonton, unsaved, death? It’s hard for us to understand the full picture, and the Bible has plenty of people argue with God about it. His argument usually is though, that he’s looking at a bigger picture than we are- and that’s a cold answer, absolutely. Heck, even Jesus gave a cold answer when asked about tragedy. “Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them – do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish” (Luke 13:4-5). Even Jesus’ is just “Sucky stuff happens, take it as a warning and repent now.” I’d give more answers but quite frankly, when confronted with the horrible atrocities that happen around the world, I too still find myself asking God, “Why?” Maybe as we go on here with each other, we’ll figure out that answer together.