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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jul 10, 2018 15:45:51 GMT -5
What about the open invite we extended a few weeks ago in axw? You had all the opportunity to qualify in.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 15:56:25 GMT -5
Yep, there was that.
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Kira Izumi
J-ROK Staff
XHF's Resident Weeb
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Post by Kira Izumi on Jul 10, 2018 17:37:51 GMT -5
i haven't really read this much, but now that i have i'd like to continue what was a dead thread. At least help continue it, since ole bobby brought it back,lol. Anyway, I've been in feds with limits and no limits. with one rp to two rps. The last fed i was in before it closed had no limits at all and my first had a two rp limit. And being a fed head, albeit an angled fed, it takes shit loads of work just to run a fed AND rp in just ONE fed. But many of us aren't in one place, because were all nuts or just love this hobby like a crack head loves him/her some crack.
That was a bad comparison but you get the point. Personally i prefer limts to rps because back when i ran in places with no limits i'd win AND lose just because i rped more/less then the other guy/gal. It's not fun when you lose because of that and it feels like a cheap win when you do win because of that. It always made me want to just push out what ever crap i could so i could compete with some, and with others i knew i could actually take my time and write one or two good rps.
But back when i first started, hell even in AWF, i actually sit and think about what i want to write, mainly why my rps are short or super late or i just don't rp at all (sorry for that i swear i'm getting better at it,haha) and stuff. With limits i feel like everyone has a fair chance and guys like hype (sorry hype but your a very good example) don't write epic novels or guys like mav (because he's young and has way more free time then anyone else here) can just churn out shit loads of rps. It's good to have limits so everyone has the same amount and limitations and stuff. At least that's how i see it. Plus i'm one of those guys who hates reading shit loads of rps and having to decide who's "better". I mean why else do you think i'm running an angled fed? haha.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 18:00:59 GMT -5
Okay, Kira, you had a great aspect to the whole situation. I think maybe what I may be thinking is this if your going to have a roleplay limit don't have a word limit or if you're going to have a word limit don't have a roleplay limit unless you're a micro-fed. Does that make more sense? I think that is what I personally would prefer because it still leaves room for those who get into a great story when having an opponent who cares just as much and tries just as much and you two are going back and forth.
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Post by Technical Perfection on Jul 10, 2018 18:41:04 GMT -5
My thoughts.
Word limits are a good thing. I don't mean strangulation word limits. 1K can be a fun challenge to write for (in fact promosing a 1K division is what got me to these boards in the first place) but for general usage it's a speciality thing.
The absolute utter main thing we, as staff, want is that people participate. A fed is nothing without active handlers. And seeing your opponent churn out War and Peace in RP form makes people not want to show. No shows are a bad thing. 2500 should be plenty to get your point across. When I was writing my Phoenix title RPs, I always had half an eye on word count even with no limits to check I wasn't waffling.
As for limits on the number of RPs, they keep things fair. We're adults. Some of us have jobs, some of us have kids, some of us have ill, elderly Auntie Maureen we need to visit to make sure she's feeding her cat. Whatever. We have real lives. RLCF. Most of us don't have the free time to go bonzo gonzo on RP turnout. And if you don't have any of those things, feel free to flood the boards with infinite amounts of high quality CDRPs. We LOVE those because it's participation.
So, in short, 2500 isn't exactly handcuffing creativity - it's just preventing you from writing something that makes your opponent back out as a reflex.
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Post by ForeverKuroi on Jul 10, 2018 19:08:11 GMT -5
My thoughts. Word limits are a good thing. I don't mean strangulation word limits. 1K can be a fun challenge to write for (in fact promosing a 1K division is what got me to these boards in the first place) but for general usage it's a speciality thing. The absolute utter main thing we, as staff, want is that people participate. A fed is nothing without active handlers. And seeing your opponent churn out War and Peace in RP form makes people not want to show. No shows are a bad thing. 2500 should be plenty to get your point across. When I was writing my Phoenix title RPs, I always had half an eye on word count even with no limits to check I wasn't waffling. As for limits on the number of RPs, they keep things fair. We're adults. Some of us have jobs, some of us have kids, some of us have ill, elderly Auntie Maureen we need to visit to make sure she's feeding her cat. Whatever. We have real lives. RLCF. Most of us don't have the free time to go bonzo gonzo on RP turnout. And if you don't have any of those things, feel free to flood the boards with infinite amounts of high quality CDRPs. We LOVE those because it's participation. So, in short, 2500 isn't exactly handcuffing creativity - it's just preventing you from writing something that makes your opponent back out as a reflex. I want to accentuate something TP just said: Creative Development. It's a beautiful thing - and in my opinion, underutilized. One of the drawbacks to e-fedding is the fixation of gold. Of championships. In my opinion, too many people see championships as the goal, and even worse, the endgame of e-fedding. It's not. E-fedding isn't a video game where once you get the belt, you win the game. E-fedding is an experience, a journey. In my opinion, a poor e-fed would be one where everyone merely tries to go after it. What we should be focusing on is the story. That's the primary reason why Storm won the X*Crown Championship and made himself ineligible to defend it on the same night. (Note: I understand that was a controversial choice, but I thought it was the most logical decision. I don't wish to derail the conversation so if you want to discuss it, PM me.) Character Developments work and should work the same way. Those RPs won't help you win matches, but that shouldn't matter. It'll help you create a more vibrant story that will go deeper into what makes your characters tick. Also, on a similar note. One of the main concerns I had, which I think is coming to fruition, is one of the downfalls of how we currently book as opposed to the XHF-booking style of open challenges and player-driven match creation: All the burden is shifted onto the admins, which I worry is creating a less natural feud/storyline dynamic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 19:10:08 GMT -5
With that said it also sucks when you have limits and your opponents still can't show up, my last two singles match's with Rev. Thomas Reece no-showed, I did three pretty good roleplays in my opinion and they were wasted because they didn't show up. Then we have limits but your opponents want to sandbag wait till last minute and drop they're roleplay's or wait until you roleplay before they do that sucks too but that's another topic lol but yeah I understand your point too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 19:15:18 GMT -5
My thoughts. Word limits are a good thing. I don't mean strangulation word limits. 1K can be a fun challenge to write for (in fact promosing a 1K division is what got me to these boards in the first place) but for general usage it's a speciality thing. The absolute utter main thing we, as staff, want is that people participate. A fed is nothing without active handlers. And seeing your opponent churn out War and Peace in RP form makes people not want to show. No shows are a bad thing. 2500 should be plenty to get your point across. When I was writing my Phoenix title RPs, I always had half an eye on word count even with no limits to check I wasn't waffling. As for limits on the number of RPs, they keep things fair. We're adults. Some of us have jobs, some of us have kids, some of us have ill, elderly Auntie Maureen we need to visit to make sure she's feeding her cat. Whatever. We have real lives. RLCF. Most of us don't have the free time to go bonzo gonzo on RP turnout. And if you don't have any of those things, feel free to flood the boards with infinite amounts of high quality CDRPs. We LOVE those because it's participation. So, in short, 2500 isn't exactly handcuffing creativity - it's just preventing you from writing something that makes your opponent back out as a reflex. I want to accentuate something TP just said: Creative Development. It's a beautiful thing - and in my opinion, underutilized. One of the drawbacks to e-fedding is the fixation of gold. Of championships. In my opinion, too many people see championships as the goal, and even worse, the endgame of e-fedding. It's not. E-fedding isn't a video game where once you get the belt, you win the game. E-fedding is an experience, a journey. In my opinion, a poor e-fed would be one where everyone merely tries to go after it. What we should be focusing on is the story. That's the primary reason why Storm won the X*Crown Championship and made himself ineligible to defend it on the same night. (Note: I understand that was a controversial choice, but I thought it was the most logical decision. I don't wish to derail the conversation so if you want to discuss it, PM me.) Character Developments work and should work the same way. Those RPs won't help you win matches, but that shouldn't matter. It'll help you create a more vibrant story that will go deeper into what makes your characters tick. Also, on a similar note. One of the main concerns I had, which I think is coming to fruition, is one of the downfalls of how we currently book as opposed to the XHF-booking style of open challenges and player-driven match creation: All the burden is shifted onto the admins, which I worry is creating a less natural feud/storyline dynamic. That's a good point but it seems like no one wants to let anyone do a storyline I have asked about different ones and been denied, but I would like more storylines and feuds not just random off the wall matches that make no sense. For example, If the admins read the roleplays and pay attention to the stories being told in them they could figure out storylines and matches for future shows. So please no one take what I just said the wrong way and start attacking me for that. If you want me to explain more inbox me and I will explain.
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Post by ForeverKuroi on Jul 10, 2018 19:15:46 GMT -5
With that said it also sucks when you have limits and your opponents still can't show up, my last two singles match's with Rev. Thomas Reece no-showed, I did three pretty good roleplays in my opinion and they were wasted because they didn't show up. Then we have limits but your opponents want to sandbag wait till last minute and drop they're roleplay's or wait until you roleplay before they do that sucks too but that's another topic lol but yeah I understand your point too. With respect to that, the XHF Phoenix Championship is the introductory belt to the AWF. Our entire Rise Up! show was modeled after building up new opponents and the unfortunate reality is not everyone who joins stays.
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Post by IMMORTALS on Jul 10, 2018 19:20:41 GMT -5
The reason rp limits came in is because situations like I encountered the other week. Np disrespect to hype, he posted epics...but to see that and habe to find a way to motivate yourself to compete against that is a shitty situation. You big wimp! And look what you went and did, broke my dreams AND my character too! I hate Bobby Parrott (note how I left your spelling mistakes in too, for added zing )
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 19:20:51 GMT -5
Yeah, Adam X, wasn't sure on him but I figured the champ would show lol but it is what it is and well it gave us a great ladder match between three of us.
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Post by IMMORTALS on Jul 10, 2018 19:27:40 GMT -5
I saw a fed before when I was looking around (www.weareosw.com, I know I talk about them a lot but in reality they suck), but they enforce a 500 words spoken rule.
That's 500 words that your character can speak. Details and scene setting aside, that limits you heavily on what your character has to say and do. Can't warble on about your comatosed friend and then chat up hookers and then basically fight with bartenders (every StormCrow RP ever) in 500 words, so you need a strategy and to think it out. Which makes the writing exciting. Without it it feels too lenghty (lol) and I for one know how tough it is being lenghty (lol) seeing as most of my Hype RPs broke the norm.
So yeah, seeing as I am culprit #1 here for the most part I agree with word limits. People like me need to be chained up. We're too powerful!
...and lenghty (lol)
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jul 10, 2018 20:36:00 GMT -5
The reason rp limits came in is because situations like I encountered the other week. Np disrespect to hype, he posted epics...but to see that and habe to find a way to motivate yourself to compete against that is a shitty situation. You big wimp! And look what you went and did, broke my dreams AND my character too! I hate Bobby Parrott (note how I left your spelling mistakes in too, for added zing ) This is what happens when I try to type from my phone lol. But in summary for me, a word limit challenges you. You both have the same restrictions...the challenge is to see what you can both do with it.
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Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Jul 10, 2018 20:45:32 GMT -5
Alright, so a lot of stuff is coming out in here, lol. Interestingly enough, many of the issues were things that were solved by the XHF's old style- but unfortunately XHF style doesn't work for 30 year olds as much as it does for high schoolers, lol
So Duke brought up the feeling of levels within the Network. I think there is a feeling of that just based on skill-level. This will happen in any circumstance, there are people who *realistically* have a better chance at winning matches and are probably more likely to get opportunities at the bigger titles and whatnot.
Unfortunately, the current style of having the admins make the matches has a tendency to exacerbate this issue, which I don't like. But, to their credit, I think the admins at the feds have been working hard to break that down. AXW has tried to give us more original matches and give opportunities to others (like Phoenix's big win against Mav at Xtraction was a big deal for him). AWF continually mixes up the cards in an attempt to simulate the XHF's feel. I think both Kira and MGK loved their feud even though many people would have said it was a miss-match.
So yeah, Kuroi is right, that puts the onus onto the admins for it and it does somewhat limit stuff. Like in the XHF people were able to challenge each other (in fact it was the only way matches got made) and were there mismatches? Oh yeah, but I've found that when "lower level" guys go against "main eventers" there's a lot of surprises. Scorpion became an XHF legend literally because he kept throwing himself at the top guys until he became a top guy. I was a terrible rper but being the owner put me into a lot of "main event" storylines so I had to get good. I'm a big fan of what I call "scrambled egg booking" which is just the admins trying hard to keep things mixed up.
But again, with the format it's more difficult. We're doing shows bi-weekly mostly and so every show sort of needs to have that PPV feel instead of random show feel. So the pressure is to put on a high-level show with everyone showing up and people end up falling into card positions. Some folks don't really care, but I can totes understand why others might.
The same goes with formulating our own storylines. In the RP pit we'd only be getting matches through rping, so everything was creative/match/story/feud all the time. Since matches weren't random, people made up reasons for fighting. But with this format one has to book people and so the matches get made and we just rp for wherever we are. Again though, a lot of us are older with jobs and families and actual problems- just rping with what's ahead of you is easier and sometimes more comfortable.
It's always the same argument though. Most of us just don't have the time or effort to do the old style. I would love to see an XHF-style fed running; but it would almost certainly require getting a bunch of really young guys to do it. The XHF lost a lot of members to more structured feds like what the network currently have just because the pressure is less while the competition stays high. Someday maybe, lol.
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Post by ForeverKuroi on Jul 10, 2018 21:22:30 GMT -5
I think Mongo phrased something Danny said in a way where I understand the point a little better, so I want to clarify something:
I've never pit two people up against each other where there was no realistic way for the underdog to win. I wouldn't pit Copycat versus Hyperion, because it didn't seem like fair booking and fair adminning. I always wanted to put fairness first and I didn't think it was fair for a seasoned veteran to go against someone who just started RPing one day and is barely understanding how e-fedding work. (Although I'm not saying that about you, Duke.)
However, if someone tells me that they want to take any match that works, that they wanted to take on anyone, I'll do it.
But yeah, I think that's where the feeling of levels come from. The AWF (neither IC nor OOC) is a classist fed. We aren't some sort of company where we pick people into groups and force them to stay within that group. We've tried split-branding. It didn't work.
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