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Post by Dackle on Jul 2, 2018 15:03:03 GMT -5
I have noticed that there is one major difference between the matches here and the matches you see elsewhere, primarily in the WWE. During non-PPV shows, like your run of the mill Raws, SmackDowns, and Impacts, once someone hits a finisher, the match is over. This holds true for most non-Main Event matches on PPV shows.
Here, it seems most kick out of at least one finisher before the match is over. Is there a reason for this? I mean, I know the kicking out makes the match more intruiging to read, much the same way as it makes it better to watch, but doesn't it cheapen the importance of the move? If a finisher is meant to "finish" a match, why should opponents kick out of at least one during every match?
This is not sour grapes or anything like that. I just don't get it. If it is not going to finish a match, then why even have the move?
.......asking for a friend.......
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Steele
Graphics Wizards
2017 EoD Winner | 2x AWF Champion | 2x TGK Champion | 1 x XHF Phoenix Champion | AWF Hall of Famer
Posts: 3,375
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Post by Steele on Jul 2, 2018 15:19:26 GMT -5
Did you watch that WhatCulture video too eh?
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Post by Dackle on Jul 2, 2018 18:00:48 GMT -5
What is WhatCulture? No, just an observation from the matches here.
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Kira Izumi
J-ROK Staff
XHF's Resident Weeb
Posts: 5,921
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Post by Kira Izumi on Jul 2, 2018 18:33:18 GMT -5
Finishers IMO should finish the match. Only on rare occasion should they be kicked out of. And moves like the Burning Hammer should never be kicked out of ever. I mean if you kick out of that you should never lose a match ever. I understand with submission finishers, because lets be honest here, you can get out of a submission, any submission and make that be believable while also keeping the move look good too. But something like a 420 blazing ddt summersault piledriver bomb supreme is just something no man woman or child chould be able to kick out of, much less walk after taking.
You should always have that finisher that's a finisher, but that's fairly weak and kick outable, while also having a strong finisher that rarely gets kicked out an dthen you should have you're equivalent of the burning hammer or tiger driver. it should never be kicked out and only be used on rare occasions.
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Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Jul 2, 2018 19:53:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm big on finishers not getting kicked out of- but I am big on finishers being reversed or having rope breaks or something. WWE has done a great job protecting the Styles Clash through that method and it makes the move look really good
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 20:51:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I believe in not kicking out of a finisher that's why it is called a finisher. Maybe once in a blue moon. Yes kicking out of a signature move, of course, WWE has gotten bad at letting people kick out of finisher especially 6 and 7 finishers in the same match is just stupid as hell. It cheapens the move and makes the match look worse and not better, that's my opinion on it. I liked it back when Hogan, Andre, Flair, Race and them wrestled they knew how to sell a move and didn't need to do a million finishers to make the crowd go wild.
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Kira Izumi
J-ROK Staff
XHF's Resident Weeb
Posts: 5,921
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Post by Kira Izumi on Jul 2, 2018 21:04:53 GMT -5
i mean i understand if your finisher is a basic move like a powerslam or scoop slam or something like that, ya know? but if it's a move that was always intended as a finisher and could be one in this crazy day and age where people kick out of shooting star presses like they just got slapped on the wrist and didn't take a super move what so ever, then it's all good.
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Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Jul 2, 2018 21:14:43 GMT -5
I think a big issues video games. Like I've noticed that more and more the matches we see on TV are like matches simmed on video games. And, usually, in the games finishers get kicked out of. I think it's quietly had an effect on what we watch
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Post by Dackle on Jul 2, 2018 21:18:55 GMT -5
I think a big issues video games. Like I've noticed that more and more the matches we see on TV are like matches simmed on video games. And, usually, in the games finishers get kicked out of. I think it's quietly had an effect on what we watch Sadly, I fear it has gotten this way here too. I mean, it seems like every match never ends with just one move and a 3 count. I know its awesome to have someone's characters seem like Supermen, but,...I dunno. Maybe I am just expecting too much realism from a place where we all are living out a fantasy. I dunno...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 21:29:38 GMT -5
I think a big issues video games. Like I've noticed that more and more the matches we see on TV are like matches simmed on video games. And, usually, in the games finishers get kicked out of. I think it's quietly had an effect on what we watch Sadly, I fear it has gotten this way here too. I mean, it seems like every match never ends with just one move and a 3 count. I know its awesome to have someone's characters seem like Supermen, but,...I dunno. Maybe I am just expecting too much realism from a place where we all are living out a fantasy. I dunno... yeah, here in the efed world, the reality isn't a thing where you have bears and robots running around a pig who was a champion lol. But I understand what you're saying, wrestling has gone downhill a lot these days but I still believe in the fact no matter what the finisher is it shouldn't take two or more of them to finish the match unless the person who did the finisher pulls you up and does it again.
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Post by Mongo the Destroyer on Jul 2, 2018 21:41:36 GMT -5
Speaking of "pulls you up." It's like the worst move a heel can make strategically (they end up losing 100% of the time after doing it) but what ever happened to douchey heels breaking the pins themselves? You know, like they've beaten the face to a pulp, pin, and then pull them up so they have an excuse to keep dishing out punishment and showing their power in the match? I love that move
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jul 3, 2018 2:55:40 GMT -5
Totally agree. Finishers are finishers for a reason. The idea should be that the move is the one move you can execute 100% better than anyone else. It's your speciality. Thing is here, it's harder to generate the excitement with some matches as when we get to the bare bones of it, it's still just text. That being said, finishers shouldn't be kicked out of unless you have a damn good reason (maybe a long running feud where you've developed a way to anticipate the move and land differently) etc.
Rock, Austin and Kurt Angle are the guys we have to blame for massive kickout sprees.
I actually remember reading Bret Hart's book about a match he had with Mr Perfect. I believe it was when he won the title. Hennig allowed Bret to be the first guy to kick out of the Perfect Plex and the roof went off the place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 10:46:19 GMT -5
Do you remember the name of the book?
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jul 3, 2018 11:32:00 GMT -5
It was Bret's autobiography. The best one I've read because he had nothing to do with wwe at the time.
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Post by "The Icon" Shawn Rossdale on Jul 3, 2018 11:32:43 GMT -5
A finishing move should be just that.
However, I think it is fine if there's a kick out or two for a rival match or a big match.
Just having random dudes kicking out of finishers just cause is dumb. And poor choice.
I don't see it as a problem here. In real life it is horrible. Didn't rock kick out of like 3 stunners once?
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