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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jun 25, 2019 9:09:41 GMT -5
It's not about AWF controlling the titles though Caff. It's about the champions (in this case the Icons) having the ego to go "fuck this we are going to take the belts out on the road and SHOW that we are the best!" Wheres the issue there? You seem to be getting mixed up between booking the match and judging it. If we have a global champ under our banner, they have all agency to go and defend it where they damn well please because looking bigger picture, worst case scenario is they lose the belt. Unlucky, but we got a fun fed collab out of it and fed relations are good but it doesn't affect our dealings in a major way. Best case scenario they win and we get bragging rights. At the end of the day matches are judged impartially anyway so what's the issue?
I'll be quiet honest here if I hadn't left AWF when I won the XCrown and they had told me where I could defend it as a GLOBAL champion (I'm not saying they would) then I would have been telling them where to go.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Jun 25, 2019 9:09:44 GMT -5
As a quick note the tag titles are unique in that they are a GLOBAL tag title for all feds. While the X*Crown is a global title in that it is supposed to be a prize to go for beyond your fed and show you are the best right now it is also NORMALLY a title within whichever fed holds it until the next global show where it must be defended to give the title a chance to bounce feds. The Phoenix and Euro titles are firmly in the feds they are in and booked as if they are titles in that fed just continuing the name of the XHF title as a way of showing the network supports its feds. So there really is no comparison. That said if the only change everyone really wanted was every tag match counted that's an easy fix and I'll lay it out here. When you book a tag match in your fed, once the show is posted you simply message the tag czar with "here's the match we had, here's the result". Takes 5 seconds. The tag czar then updates the spreadsheet with points and any new teams. Takes I dunno 30 seconds.But here's the thing, this means the tag czar isn't really running anything. They are simply volunteering to keep track of teams and points and then post a little post somewhere when someone reaches 5 points and can challenge for the titles. So really it doesn't matter who is the czar, whether they compete for the titles or are the champ because they have no booking power. They are basically an accountant. With the added benefit of knowing all the teams, who is hot, who is close/ready ... and that's it. This! Can we go home now?!!?!
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Post by Dave D-Flipz on Jun 25, 2019 9:11:04 GMT -5
And honestly if that is how it runs and admins are willing to take 5 seconds to message the czar I'd have no problem doing it, I know how to do the spreadsheets on this forum (and excel) and it falls within my short time frames of being on the site. EDIT: After my vacation, I will have no internet until I return Tuesday the 8th)
That said I do think maybe we should look into the you must have at least a win and especially the RP thing (again for RP feds, not really fair to put an RP requirement on a dice or angled based fed...)
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Jun 25, 2019 9:12:04 GMT -5
It's not about AWF controlling the titles though Caff. It's about the champions (in this case the Icons) having the ego to go "fuck this we are going to take the belts out on the road and SHOW that we are the best!" Wheres the issue there? You seem to be getting mixed up between booking the match and judging it. If we have a global champ under our banner, they have all agency to go and defend it where they damn well please because looking bigger picture, worst case scenario is they lose the belt. Unlucky, but we got a fun fed collab out of it and fed relations are good but it doesn't affect our dealings in a major way. Best case scenario they win and we get bragging rights. At the end of the day matches are judged impartially anyway so what's the issue? I'll be quiet honest here if I hadn't left AWF when I won the XCrown and they had told me where I could defend it as a GLOBAL champion (I'm not saying they would) then I would have been telling them where to go. We have talented performers going after these belts. I think everyone does. Imagine tomorrow as your world champion I decided to go off to AWF and got massacred by the Phoenix Champion, Guttertrash Greg Adkins. You'd be pretty pissed the guy who ran roughshod over your entire company just got fucked in the ass, wouldn't you?
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Jun 25, 2019 9:12:47 GMT -5
And honestly if that is how it runs and admins are willing to take 5 seconds to message the czar I'd have no problem doing it, I know how to do the spreadsheets on this forum (and excel) and it falls within my short time frames of being on the site. EDIT: After my vacation, I will have no internet until I return Tuesday the 8th) That said I do think maybe we should look into the you must have at least a win and especially the RP thing (again for RP feds, not really fair to put an RP requirement on a dice or angled based fed...) Spending the time to do three dice matches is a lot more time sometimes than RPing, so that's absolutely fine.
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Post by Dave D-Flipz on Jun 25, 2019 9:14:25 GMT -5
I'll be quiet honest here if I hadn't left AWF when I won the XCrown and they had told me where I could defend it as a GLOBAL champion (I'm not saying they would) then I would have been telling them where to go. The issue here is that the X*Crown is a company title not a global title. It operates as the top title of whatever fed the holder is in and can be freely defended and passed around within that fed. The tag titles are global titles and should be defended against ALL feds. So right now Caffrey cannot challenge for the X*Crown except at a global event because the title is an AWF title at the moment. However Caffrey and Bobby COULD challenge for the tag titles because they are global even if being held by the AWF Icons.
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Post by "The Family Man" Danny Ray on Jun 25, 2019 9:16:01 GMT -5
It's not about AWF controlling the titles though Caff. It's about the champions (in this case the Icons) having the ego to go "fuck this we are going to take the belts out on the road and SHOW that we are the best!" Wheres the issue there? You seem to be getting mixed up between booking the match and judging it. If we have a global champ under our banner, they have all agency to go and defend it where they damn well please because looking bigger picture, worst case scenario is they lose the belt. Unlucky, but we got a fun fed collab out of it and fed relations are good but it doesn't affect our dealings in a major way. Best case scenario they win and we get bragging rights. At the end of the day matches are judged impartially anyway so what's the issue? I'll be quiet honest here if I hadn't left AWF when I won the XCrown and they had told me where I could defend it as a GLOBAL champion (I'm not saying they would) then I would have been telling them where to go. We have talented performers going after these belts. I think everyone does. Imagine tomorrow as your world champion I decided to go off to AWF and got massacred by the Phoenix Champion, Guttertrash Greg Adkins. You'd be pretty pissed the guy who ran roughshod over your entire company just got fucked in the ass, wouldn't you? Sometimes that happens in wrestling where wrestlers from other companies get beat when they go to other companies but think of it this way it would set up for a great Xtraction story.
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jun 25, 2019 9:20:32 GMT -5
It's not about AWF controlling the titles though Caff. It's about the champions (in this case the Icons) having the ego to go "fuck this we are going to take the belts out on the road and SHOW that we are the best!" Wheres the issue there? You seem to be getting mixed up between booking the match and judging it. If we have a global champ under our banner, they have all agency to go and defend it where they damn well please because looking bigger picture, worst case scenario is they lose the belt. Unlucky, but we got a fun fed collab out of it and fed relations are good but it doesn't affect our dealings in a major way. Best case scenario they win and we get bragging rights. At the end of the day matches are judged impartially anyway so what's the issue? I'll be quiet honest here if I hadn't left AWF when I won the XCrown and they had told me where I could defend it as a GLOBAL champion (I'm not saying they would) then I would have been telling them where to go. We have talented performers going after these belts. I think everyone does. Imagine tomorrow as your world champion I decided to go off to AWF and got massacred by the Phoenix Champion, Guttertrash Greg Adkins. You'd be pretty pissed the guy who ran roughshod over your entire company just got fucked in the ass, wouldn't you? No. I know you're going to call me a liar here but no I wouldn't. Because it doesn't matter. But you're also taking the global title which encourages inter fed relations put of that scenario. You're taking away the reason to go to another fed because it suits your agenda. If you want awf tag titles, create some..until then those are global tag titles and down to the fucking champs to defend as they please.
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jun 25, 2019 9:23:35 GMT -5
We have talented performers going after these belts. I think everyone does. Imagine tomorrow as your world champion I decided to go off to AWF and got massacred by the Phoenix Champion, Guttertrash Greg Adkins. You'd be pretty pissed the guy who ran roughshod over your entire company just got fucked in the ass, wouldn't you? Sometimes that happens in wrestling where wrestlers from other companies get beat when they go to other companies but think of it this way it would set up for a great Xtraction story. This is something I forgot to mention when Caffey was saying about no fed interaction apart from global shows. AXW has had 2 xtraction events in the past 2 years. One with AWF and one with FWA
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Post by Dave D-Flipz on Jun 25, 2019 9:30:54 GMT -5
Ok so it seems there is agreement on at least these items so far.
-Tag teams must fill out a global application to challenge for the tag titles. -Tag teams are NOT required to fill one out to obtain points. -Admins of the feds will alert the tag czar to any tag matches and results so the tracker can be updated.
We are still discussing: RP requirements for obtaining points, who will be the tag czar, any other changes.
As a note I'm a) interpreting the 1 point requirement as a non-win so draws get both teams 1 point. b) I'm doing some preliminary remodeling to the tag division hub to put the tracker and champions in the main forum and to update the tracker with this information.
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Post by Dave D-Flipz on Jun 25, 2019 9:33:44 GMT -5
ALso this means for now ... send your tag match results to me and Mongo until we have a new tag czar and I will update until the end of this week and Mongo on my vacation until we decide on the tag czar. Please continue discussing any other topics or concerns.
I still strongly believe in the RP rule to earn points in an RP fed, as well as the one victory per challenge. To clarify that means in MY view (again please discuss this is my opinion now) you should have to win 1 match per time you challenge. So get 5 points with a win, challenge. Get another 5 points but on 5 losses? You gotta win to get the right to challenge. Just my idea. And honestly an easy track as I can just add a column to the table to track win condition. No extra work for the czar except to flip it from yes to no or no to yes when conditions are met/challenges completed.
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Post by IMMORTALS on Jun 25, 2019 9:44:35 GMT -5
Ok so it seems there is agreement on at least these items so far. -Tag teams must fill out a global application to challenge for the tag titles. -Tag teams are NOT required to fill one out to obtain points. -Admins of the feds will alert the tag czar to any tag matches and results so the tracker can be updated. We are still discussing: RP requirements for obtaining points, who will be the tag czar, any other changes. As a note I'm a) interpreting the 1 point requirement as a non-win so draws get both teams 1 point. b) I'm doing some preliminary remodeling to the tag division hub to put the tracker and champions in the main forum and to update the tracker with this information. How about the tag team alerts the czar? Not to burden the admins any further really. Whether on the boards or Discord, if they want a challenge they should manage their own records. I mean even if they forget to after five shows it only takes a few minutes to scroll back and look it up. I also like the idea of tag titles being sought after by tag teams, and not a mixed singles/tag hybrid. Example, while Icons ruled the world with the tag titles and xcrown/prestige title, and it's a pretty nice feeling to hold multiple big belts I'm sure, there should be clear booking after that. Either you remain doing tag matches or you drop your solo belts. World champs can't challenge the X*Crown so why should the XHF Tag titles be so different? I also like that if we push tag teams to build points they have to find matches/opponents. So say me and Kuroi battle the teams of AWF...which are like, Icons Nihilists and maybe one other, we might quickly lose interest. (OK bad example but say a fed has 1-2 teams, opening up the idea of a guest appearance on another show to challenge a team from another fed might spice things up). I fully accept if inter-fed minglings are not approved but for the sake of the tag division it could be cool. And it will bring it fully to life. So yeah; -teams track their own score (if it's just accounting I'll even do it if others decline) -tag teams should respect the grind and focus on just tag titles, pausing their solo careers temporarily (unless explicitly not chasing the tag titles of course) -interfed matches could be allowed, if only at a PPV level, to allow more variation and options of opponents and writers.
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Post by "The Family Man" Danny Ray on Jun 25, 2019 9:48:45 GMT -5
Thats the thing Hype Global tag teams can go on any show and compete they are not restricted to one fed as long as it's a tag team match they just can't do solo matches. That's why it helps having the Global application in because it allows you to have more competition.
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Jun 25, 2019 9:54:52 GMT -5
I'll go on record and say I fully support fed mingling. If you need an extra match and want a different opponent, just drop one of the axw boys a line.
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Post by Seth Dillinger on Jun 25, 2019 9:57:09 GMT -5
If World Champs can't challenge for the X*Crown why were World Champs competing for in the Rumble? Why did Jack & I have a winner take all match for X*Crown/Prestige Title? That seems like a rule that existed at one point and doesn't exist anymore. X*Crown has been defended in other feds before. I actually think that's kinda the coolest part of it. Same with the XHF Tag Titles. Global titles are global. More at 11. I also disagree that each tag team should be responsible for reporting their match. I think it's not hard for the admins to take about 2 minutes to send a PM if they're interested in having tag teams in their feds. Plus, admins are more likely to be unbiased and report correct results. Regarding the tag title recordkeeping -- I already set up a Google Sheet that autocalculates points, so it wouldn't be hard to create a version for all feds and pass that off to whoever is using it. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iSRfc-N_ak-ZcXZVvs-ZvEIwHzRrxPEqnQFkE3QZRxo/edit?usp=sharing
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