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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 30, 2019 8:44:51 GMT -5
Alright, so Seth, you say you haven't ever asked to be a mod or admin on the discord- this is true. However, what you have said belies that you think it should be your role. Caff too, and I'm pretty sure you guys have work-shopped how to approach these since your angles have matched up in pms. Before you argue that there's no evidence of that- that's not the focus and this isn't mafia. You've tried to get the discord admins ousted, you've tried to get the discord handed over to me so I could oust them, and when I made the official discord apparently consulting you was something I needed to do? Ok, so if you think you can do a better job, then let me give you- and anyone who wants to be in power on the discord, some scenarios. That's the focus on this, I wanna know how you'd handle these since apparently they aren't being handled well. 1. A member of the discord flames out, drunk and angry about something that occurred in dms. Because of the discord they're gonna leave the Network. How do you resolve the issue? 2. Two members get into a spat in one of the public areas of the discord. It's loud, maybe drunk, and there's a whole lot of pride at stake- oh and feds. Two feds are at stake because as it turns out they're both fed heads and whoever "loses" (or feels like he lost) this argument is defo closing his fed. How do you resolve this fight? 3. You've got a member who spams- pretty much all the time. He's not breaking any rules per-say but man it's really annoying. People are having deep but friendly conversations and he keeps interjecting nonsense to get attention and it's taking up large portions of the page and the conversation keeps getting buried in his silliness. Again, there's nothing offensive; just really friggin' annoying. What do you do? 4. You've got a member who's dropping bigoted language. When told to stop the member claims they're a member of that group/minority- true or false you don't know because this is the internet and we're literally based around a game where you play somebody else. Maybe they're dropping racially insensitive language, maybe they're dropping homophobic slurs, maybe it's gender-biased garbage. After being warned that member continues to use said language and delete it quickly; playing a game with the rules in hopes they can get a rise out of the guys and the staff. You don't have lightning reflexes so any evidence is immediately destroyed. What do you do? 5. You've got a staffer who's a hot head and flames out on a member. That member, also bustling with pride, begins flaming everyone around them assuming they're involved when they were telling the staffer to calm down. The staffer signs off immediately and you've got a member who's lashing out in every direction. What's the resolution? 6. You're asleep, eating, working, or spending time with people you love in irl offline- or anything offline. During that time a fight occurs on the discord and you only come in at the end or maybe even after the damage is done. There's plenty of witnesses but in the end it seems like both were probably drunk/full of pride and had it out over something others don't think is a deal- but the two parties absolutely do. How do you go about resolving it? 7. One of your staffers enacted a punishment on two guys after a fight. One of them is messaging you every one to two minutes to reverse the decision; for an hour. They alternate between begging, threatening to leave the Network, and ordering you. What do you do? 8. You've done your best to answer these issues, but some members still think you did a terrible job. And they let you know, with curse words, entitled language, and insults to boot. Were you wrong? What do you do now? The discord gets rowdy, and none of us have the time to be there all day. And the one moment we look away to write an rp or do a show, something will happen. The easy answer is "I never said I wanted to be a mod or admin." But if a person can't or refuses to answer these kind of questions and situations constructively (not "well I certainly wouldn't do what was done")- maybe they aren't the right person to tell others they're doing a bad job. I've not even read a single bit further, but no, I have no intention on being an admin and have repeatedly suggested people I would like as an admin instead, as mentioned a few pages ago, including Bobby B and Kira. I work two jobs (three sometimes) and this shit already takes too much up of my time. I think this is also with Seth -- if we wanted it, we would say so.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 30, 2019 9:42:32 GMT -5
The answer to all of those is "have rules and admins that follow the rules". That seems to take care of at least 5+ of those.
1) Rules would fix 2) Rules + proper warnings/actions would fix 3) "Hey, stop doing that." 4) Rules + proper warnings/actions would fix 5) Not having that staffer as an admin, rules + proper warnings/actions would fix 6) Rules + actions 7) Realize that yeah, that member is upset because they were very much wronged by someone in charge of keeping the order 8) Yes
Also, you know the jailing on me was complete horseshit, and you acknowledged it as being a wrong decision. Your inability to stand up to your friends who made a wrong decision led to #7. You know how six could have been resolved? Saying "hey we fucked up" and letting me out of jail instead of keeping me in there because it amused the admin team. Your staffers were completely out of line and moving the goalposts back every five minutes to rile me up forward, including Dust himself messaging you that he would be keeping me in the jail after I respectfully, peacefully, and levelheadedly asked to be let out privately after I had cooled odwn, which was what was asked of me in the first place... but you're going to blame me because I'm a loud ass hothead. It's almost like if people keep holding a lighter up to a puddle of what you know is gasoline, it'll explode, but sure, blame the gas.
THEN I was kept in jail after being told it was only going to be towards morning, and you ask me not to be upset by that? C'mon fellas, this isn't hard! Caffrey gets upset when he's getting abused, so stop abusing him. This is not rocket science.
But Mongo, in all serious "doing your best" is letting your admin friends abuse your members and walk around unchecked because "they've been here", then you need to aim a bit higher, man. That's just a ridiculous claim, and I hope it isn't a serious one. What kind of message does it send to the "Network Era" members if you automatically side with the admin staff, who mostly doesn't have any skin in the game, over the people who are working their asses off for this network everytime? We just came off of a 17-match show and instead of being excited for the Network I'm more disenfranchised with it than I've ever been. This thread has been a beacon of light in the darkness, but I will fully admit sitting here mumbling that I don't think anything real is going to change.
Also --- if no one wants to be a mod or admin --- instead of thinking the people who just want rules and regulations in place, maybe hire the people who have come to you and said they would do it. I know for a fact Bobby Barratt has asked about this more than once.
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Post by Seth Dillinger on Sept 30, 2019 11:56:44 GMT -5
Umm.. attack from me? Why am I being mentioned? I'll address this with you privately, since you seem to be confused. I had a similar conversation with Dragon earlier and we cleared the air. Alright, so Seth, you say you haven't ever asked to be a mod or admin on the discord- this is true. However, what you have said belies that you think it should be your role. Caff too, and I'm pretty sure you guys have work-shopped how to approach these since your angles have matched up in pms. Before you argue that there's no evidence of that- that's not the focus and this isn't mafia. You've tried to get the discord admins ousted, you've tried to get the discord handed over to me so I could oust them, and when I made the official discord apparently consulting you was something I needed to do? Ok, so if you think you can do a better job, then let me give you- and anyone who wants to be in power on the discord, some scenarios. That's the focus on this, I wanna know how you'd handle these since apparently they aren't being handled well. 1. A member of the discord flames out, drunk and angry about something that occurred in dms. Because of the discord they're gonna leave the Network. How do you resolve the issue? 2. Two members get into a spat in one of the public areas of the discord. It's loud, maybe drunk, and there's a whole lot of pride at stake- oh and feds. Two feds are at stake because as it turns out they're both fed heads and whoever "loses" (or feels like he lost) this argument is defo closing his fed. How do you resolve this fight? 3. You've got a member who spams- pretty much all the time. He's not breaking any rules per-say but man it's really annoying. People are having deep but friendly conversations and he keeps interjecting nonsense to get attention and it's taking up large portions of the page and the conversation keeps getting buried in his silliness. Again, there's nothing offensive; just really friggin' annoying. What do you do? 4. You've got a member who's dropping bigoted language. When told to stop the member claims they're a member of that group/minority- true or false you don't know because this is the internet and we're literally based around a game where you play somebody else. Maybe they're dropping racially insensitive language, maybe they're dropping homophobic slurs, maybe it's gender-biased garbage. After being warned that member continues to use said language and delete it quickly; playing a game with the rules in hopes they can get a rise out of the guys and the staff. You don't have lightning reflexes so any evidence is immediately destroyed. What do you do? 5. You've got a staffer who's a hot head and flames out on a member. That member, also bustling with pride, begins flaming everyone around them assuming they're involved when they were telling the staffer to calm down. The staffer signs off immediately and you've got a member who's lashing out in every direction. What's the resolution? 6. You're asleep, eating, working, or spending time with people you love in irl offline- or anything offline. During that time a fight occurs on the discord and you only come in at the end or maybe even after the damage is done. There's plenty of witnesses but in the end it seems like both were probably drunk/full of pride and had it out over something others don't think is a deal- but the two parties absolutely do. How do you go about resolving it? 7. One of your staffers enacted a punishment on two guys after a fight. One of them is messaging you every one to two minutes to reverse the decision; for an hour. They alternate between begging, threatening to leave the Network, and ordering you. What do you do? 8. You've done your best to answer these issues, but some members still think you did a terrible job. And they let you know, with curse words, entitled language, and insults to boot. Were you wrong? What do you do now? The discord gets rowdy, and none of us have the time to be there all day. And the one moment we look away to write an rp or do a show, something will happen. The easy answer is "I never said I wanted to be a mod or admin." But if a person can't or refuses to answer these kind of questions and situations constructively (not "well I certainly wouldn't do what was done")- maybe they aren't the right person to tell others they're doing a bad job. No, I don't want to own the Discord or be an admin. I've stated this to you plainly several times. And bug off by making up conspiracy theories that me/Caffrey somehow workshopped our approaches. I didn't even know Caffrey had been talking to you about it on that night where I sat down to discuss it with you. My comment about you not consulting me was in response to Rob insisting that I was somehow a big sponsor of this new half-assed Discord -- something he claims he was told by multiple people. I don't want to or need to be consulted, but if my name is going to be thrown out there as some grand conspirator in all this bullshit, I'm going to make it clear that I definitely was NOT consulted to clear my name. I do not want to be in power. I'm not sure how clear I can make this other than saying it to you multiple times. I already moderate other massive Discord channels and don't want to take on another one. That being said, I've addressed most of these issues moderating other places. And what's going to happen is I am going to answer these questions with how I've seen it handled well, then we'll get into a quotestriping nitpicking back and forth over why the ideas aren't 100% sound. But what the hell, the owner of the entire Network wants to wade into it, so let's do it. 1. If it occurred in DMs and was just an argument between members, it doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of Discord admins. If it's allegations of something more serious (IE, on other servers, I've run into a situation where one male Discord user was sexually harassing some of our female users) then I think it warrants a full Discord ban under extenuating circumstances. 2. You put them both in time out with explicit warnings in place not to continue the fight. You have a set up tiered escalation system -- 15 minute cooldown ban, 6 hour cooldown ban, 24 hour cooldown ban, week-long, etc -- that ends in full permaban from the server. On other servers, we have "decay" too, so if someone goes X time without an issue they'll start naturally falling down the ladder back to lower level punishments. IE, if someone was a dick a year ago but has chilled since then, then gets in a fight a year later, they would probably start again at 15 minutes. We also have "appeals" in place, if someone thinks their ban was unjust, they can go to other admins and state their case, and that ban/decision goes under review. Whether it's overturned or not, the admin team, AS A GROUP, agrees on how to respond publicly. A channel with official ban/restriction announcements that's only postable by admins is also a good idea so people can easily go to one place to see the history of bans. "X has been cooldown banned for 6 hours due to breaking rule blahblahblah here (link)". Back to the question: I wouldn't bend the knee because someone is threatening to leave the network or shut their fed down. That's separate from Discord moderation, as you've made abundantly clear. 3. If the user isn't breaking channel rules (IE-- is there a no spamming rule in the channel? Or no off-topic posting rule?) then they're not doing anything wrong. For individual users who people find annoying, that's why the user ignore/block function exists. I'd tell users to handle it themselves by blocking problematic users on the Discord if it's detracting from their experience. 4. You ban according to the existing tiered system you have set in place. 5. Staffers should be held to the same standards (if not higher) as any other user. They get escalated up the tiered system with stated rules for what happens. 6. See above. If they're breaking rules by being jerks, then you escalate. If one of them is a first-time infraction, give them the 15 minute cooldown ban. If one of them has had multiple infraction, 24 hour cooldown or whatever point they're at. 7. If the staffer followed the set punishment guidelines, and the user is complaining, then it just falls on deaf ears. Mute them. Point them to the rules post. If they're going to leave the Network over it, that's on them. If you feel like they're arguing in good faith? Feel free, as a human being, to have that deeper conversation with them. But in terms of what's expected of a moderator in a vacuum, there's no obligation to discuss the ban. 8. I don't personally believe it's good to have people involved in the heat of an argument be the one making ban decisions. I know I personally have never banned anyone for attacking me. If another mod steps in and thinks it's banworthy, from an unbiased, objective point of view, then they can pull that trigger instead.
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Sept 30, 2019 13:33:42 GMT -5
I think point 2 could sort out 90% of the server issues tbf.
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Post by Robbie A on Sept 30, 2019 13:45:08 GMT -5
I didn't go for shit, Rob. I made my complaints to Mongo, got silence, then there's a new Discord that I assumed was being created due to my complaints. I'm not sorry that a new Discord was created, because I had nothing to do with it being created and only found out after the fact, and got invited to it and discovered it at the same time several other people did. I wasn't consulted on this, it's not my creation, and your desperate attempts to tie it to me are, honestly, quite sad. You need a scapegoat to blame for the fact that Mongo and his admins fucked up, and you see more juice to be squeezed in targeting me for it, because you've found the easy way to tie everything I do to Caffrey, which you know will get people's jimmies rustled. That's why you broadcasted everything to the radio chat when I was debating with you about having not been presented with reasons why Caffrey has acted out unprovoked. If what you told me is true, and admins told you I'm the big supporter and 100% on board with this stupid fucking Discord, then that's bullshit and I'll leave it to you to call out whichever admin lied to you. Or you can keep hiding behind this aura of using me as a scapegoat. - Reliably informed that you were talking about moving all AWF related stuff over to the new one. You also have to realise that people have their own opinions, and they made them clear to me at the time that they realised there was a second Discord, because they could all see how it came about. I'm not gonna apologize for suggesting we modernize and then having people misinterpret me. I had ONE conversation with Mongo before any of this happened when I asked Mongo if he'd just hear me out on Discord, said my peace, and that was it. We moved on to Mongo's suggestions for how the /r/efeds subreddit should be moderated. I had no further conversations about a Discord or anything of the sort until I got randomly invited to a new one, then got told it was a half-measure, and promptly ignored it. And then you messaged me in the middle of the night about how I lied to you, with such wild accusations, and I had no clue what you were talking about. I took time out of my night hanging out with actual people to try to set the record straight, only to find out you were half-cocked in a live voice chat and broadcasting everything. So no, Rob, I won't take any of it back. I had no interactions with you prior to this shit, despite Caffrey and Kuroi telling me how you were. I stayed out of it. You reached out to me, calling me a liar, and I sat down and tried to address it. And in return, you broadcast my shit to a bunch of people and controlled the narrative. That kinda duplicity and immaturity can kindly stay out of my life. People were pissed at me...because why, exactly? Because I made a suggestion that we modernize, and in return, Mongo went off and created a new server that didn't even remotely meet the issues I was addressing? Because some XHF admins apparently gave you half-cocked information that I was supporting the new Discord 100% and I was on board? Because various vague "people" were mad at me, like I was the cause of this new server or that it was something I wanted? It's all horseshit. - Amuses me that Caff wants to comment on "how I am" when over the course of the last year or so I've either backed him (which there were a number of times, DM and in public, but I'm sure they've been forgotten) or disagreed with him, but I suspect I know how the disagreements were perceived. I absolutely did nothing wrong. And I'll stand by it till the end of time. I voiced my very well-founded concerns about the Discord, then walked away and heard nothing back. Then suddenly a new Discord gets created and everyone's super mad about it...and I had nothing to do with it. - Well you did have something to do with it because your complaints led to a decision being made, but I'm being picky now. Again, I've been told that once it was up you wanted to move the AWF stuff over, which is a strong endorsement in my books. You can tell me otherwise, and that's fine, but as it's all becoming he said/she said it also fast becomes irrelevant. The thing is that I'm 30, I work 60 hours a week, and I am adult enough about stupid Discord drama to not wade into it like you, even when Caffrey is being supremely unreasonable. It's why I've stayed out of it for the past year while I've had every single achievement I've earned during my time in XHF constantly under attack from people like Jack & Bobby, Dragon, Mav, and others. I care about putting out good shows for AWF and occasionally, when I have free time between things, I check in and interact in the Discord, because I happen to sometimes enjoy talking to you people. See, my identity isn't tied to being an admin in some community I stopped actively contributing to years ago... my free time is tied to helping build AWF, and by extension, XHF, into something awesome and progressive and modern that I can be proud of taking up my free time. It's why I've not once suggested I become an admin, even though I think it'd be very difficult for anyone here to explain a reason why I shouldn't be. Because feckless power doesn't fuel me. I don't get off on capriciously banning people who happen to disagree with me. Not my bag, sorry. - I am also 30 and work similar hours, please don't attempt to condescend me about life/e-fed balance. Previously on the radio before all kicked off I was talking and leading a discussion as to anxiety, and how e-fedding had stopped causing me enjoyment and caused anxiety because I could no longer find a happy balance. Believe it or not Seth I can, and am somebody of mature worth. You act and suggest like I don't care about anything but myself but that's simply not true, I care about the Network, always have, I'm just very direct at times, and I won't hold back when it comes to calling people out. Is that a bad thing? Yes, sometimes it is.I'd just like to point out actually, that for all the hashing out here that from my point of view it's been bury Rob thread, of which a chunk of it was warranted. Thing is, I've put my big boy pants on and held my hands up. I'd like to point out that there's not a lot else of that going on elsewhere. Sometimes where promised. You can think of me as you like, before the weekend, other than a few heated back and forth arguments/strong words with a few people (which I Could literally count on one hand) that I've kept my nose pretty clean. You don't have to like my opinions but they've been just that. The radio chats have, certainly whilst I've been on have been playful for the vast majority and this concept that I and they (the radio chats) are toxic are misinformed and really quite hurtful. So, okay, if it's easier, continue to demonise me, but my overall feeling is that there are people who have tried to listen, and people who are simply not listening. Therefore, this thread will be pointless (unless it's better just to keep it open so people can abuse me more, I'm a team player with broad shoulders), and may as well be locked, because I don't think enough of the key players here are willing to give any more ground up.
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Post by Seth Dillinger on Sept 30, 2019 13:50:14 GMT -5
I'm off it now. There's nothing to be gained for repeating my positions on you and there's nothing to be gained in my repeating myself over and over about how I didn't endorse the other Discord after I found out its purpose, because you're right, he-said-she-said isn't going to get anywhere.
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Post by ForeverKuroi on Sept 30, 2019 13:58:33 GMT -5
While a lot of this stuff is in jest, there is honestly a lot of dung-slinging, and it's largely self admitted. I think this is something we should try to hold off on.
Like, just don't goad people. Don't try to get reactions out of people. It's not needed. Like, we sometimes make fun of people, but when someone says it's passing the line or you can tell it's turning into an argument, stop it.
For example, I make a lot of Dylan's mom jokes, but I check in with him every once in a while and he's never told me to back off, so I don't. But I check in with him every time I feel he's getting pissed off and the moment he tells me to stop, I'll stop.
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Post by Bobby Barratt on Sept 30, 2019 14:18:27 GMT -5
So now most of the inevitable shit slinging is out of the way, obviously on a few fronts I dont believe there will be any ground to be gained. So let's divert the efforts into where we go from here.
I liked point 2 from Seth's post above. The tiered system being laid out would make things crystal clear with a few exceptions for racism, homophobia etc.
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Post by La Familia Price on Sept 30, 2019 15:21:00 GMT -5
Caff, if Rob apologizes for his actions, will you? Yes, but if he doesn’t mean it, I’m not taking it. This has yet to happen btw. Well Rob did but the rest hasn't.
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Post by jamesmueller on Sept 30, 2019 17:12:49 GMT -5
Umm.. attack from me? Why am I being mentioned? I'll address this with you privately, since you seem to be confused. I had a similar conversation with Dragon earlier and we cleared the air. Alright, so Seth, you say you haven't ever asked to be a mod or admin on the discord- this is true. However, what you have said belies that you think it should be your role. Caff too, and I'm pretty sure you guys have work-shopped how to approach these since your angles have matched up in pms. Before you argue that there's no evidence of that- that's not the focus and this isn't mafia. You've tried to get the discord admins ousted, you've tried to get the discord handed over to me so I could oust them, and when I made the official discord apparently consulting you was something I needed to do? Ok, so if you think you can do a better job, then let me give you- and anyone who wants to be in power on the discord, some scenarios. That's the focus on this, I wanna know how you'd handle these since apparently they aren't being handled well. 1. A member of the discord flames out, drunk and angry about something that occurred in dms. Because of the discord they're gonna leave the Network. How do you resolve the issue? 2. Two members get into a spat in one of the public areas of the discord. It's loud, maybe drunk, and there's a whole lot of pride at stake- oh and feds. Two feds are at stake because as it turns out they're both fed heads and whoever "loses" (or feels like he lost) this argument is defo closing his fed. How do you resolve this fight? 3. You've got a member who spams- pretty much all the time. He's not breaking any rules per-say but man it's really annoying. People are having deep but friendly conversations and he keeps interjecting nonsense to get attention and it's taking up large portions of the page and the conversation keeps getting buried in his silliness. Again, there's nothing offensive; just really friggin' annoying. What do you do? 4. You've got a member who's dropping bigoted language. When told to stop the member claims they're a member of that group/minority- true or false you don't know because this is the internet and we're literally based around a game where you play somebody else. Maybe they're dropping racially insensitive language, maybe they're dropping homophobic slurs, maybe it's gender-biased garbage. After being warned that member continues to use said language and delete it quickly; playing a game with the rules in hopes they can get a rise out of the guys and the staff. You don't have lightning reflexes so any evidence is immediately destroyed. What do you do? 5. You've got a staffer who's a hot head and flames out on a member. That member, also bustling with pride, begins flaming everyone around them assuming they're involved when they were telling the staffer to calm down. The staffer signs off immediately and you've got a member who's lashing out in every direction. What's the resolution? 6. You're asleep, eating, working, or spending time with people you love in irl offline- or anything offline. During that time a fight occurs on the discord and you only come in at the end or maybe even after the damage is done. There's plenty of witnesses but in the end it seems like both were probably drunk/full of pride and had it out over something others don't think is a deal- but the two parties absolutely do. How do you go about resolving it? 7. One of your staffers enacted a punishment on two guys after a fight. One of them is messaging you every one to two minutes to reverse the decision; for an hour. They alternate between begging, threatening to leave the Network, and ordering you. What do you do? 8. You've done your best to answer these issues, but some members still think you did a terrible job. And they let you know, with curse words, entitled language, and insults to boot. Were you wrong? What do you do now? The discord gets rowdy, and none of us have the time to be there all day. And the one moment we look away to write an rp or do a show, something will happen. The easy answer is "I never said I wanted to be a mod or admin." But if a person can't or refuses to answer these kind of questions and situations constructively (not "well I certainly wouldn't do what was done")- maybe they aren't the right person to tell others they're doing a bad job. No, I don't want to own the Discord or be an admin. I've stated this to you plainly several times. And bug off by making up conspiracy theories that me/Caffrey somehow workshopped our approaches. I didn't even know Caffrey had been talking to you about it on that night where I sat down to discuss it with you. My comment about you not consulting me was in response to Rob insisting that I was somehow a big sponsor of this new half-assed Discord -- something he claims he was told by multiple people. I don't want to or need to be consulted, but if my name is going to be thrown out there as some grand conspirator in all this bullshit, I'm going to make it clear that I definitely was NOT consulted to clear my name. I do not want to be in power. I'm not sure how clear I can make this other than saying it to you multiple times. I already moderate other massive Discord channels and don't want to take on another one. That being said, I've addressed most of these issues moderating other places. And what's going to happen is I am going to answer these questions with how I've seen it handled well, then we'll get into a quotestriping nitpicking back and forth over why the ideas aren't 100% sound. But what the hell, the owner of the entire Network wants to wade into it, so let's do it. 1. If it occurred in DMs and was just an argument between members, it doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of Discord admins. If it's allegations of something more serious (IE, on other servers, I've run into a situation where one male Discord user was sexually harassing some of our female users) then I think it warrants a full Discord ban under extenuating circumstances. 2. You put them both in time out with explicit warnings in place not to continue the fight. You have a set up tiered escalation system -- 15 minute cooldown ban, 6 hour cooldown ban, 24 hour cooldown ban, week-long, etc -- that ends in full permaban from the server. On other servers, we have "decay" too, so if someone goes X time without an issue they'll start naturally falling down the ladder back to lower level punishments. IE, if someone was a dick a year ago but has chilled since then, then gets in a fight a year later, they would probably start again at 15 minutes. We also have "appeals" in place, if someone thinks their ban was unjust, they can go to other admins and state their case, and that ban/decision goes under review. Whether it's overturned or not, the admin team, AS A GROUP, agrees on how to respond publicly. A channel with official ban/restriction announcements that's only postable by admins is also a good idea so people can easily go to one place to see the history of bans. "X has been cooldown banned for 6 hours due to breaking rule blahblahblah here (link)". Back to the question: I wouldn't bend the knee because someone is threatening to leave the network or shut their fed down. That's separate from Discord moderation, as you've made abundantly clear. 3. If the user isn't breaking channel rules (IE-- is there a no spamming rule in the channel? Or no off-topic posting rule?) then they're not doing anything wrong. For individual users who people find annoying, that's why the user ignore/block function exists. I'd tell users to handle it themselves by blocking problematic users on the Discord if it's detracting from their experience. 4. You ban according to the existing tiered system you have set in place. 5. Staffers should be held to the same standards (if not higher) as any other user. They get escalated up the tiered system with stated rules for what happens. 6. See above. If they're breaking rules by being jerks, then you escalate. If one of them is a first-time infraction, give them the 15 minute cooldown ban. If one of them has had multiple infraction, 24 hour cooldown or whatever point they're at. 7. If the staffer followed the set punishment guidelines, and the user is complaining, then it just falls on deaf ears. Mute them. Point them to the rules post. If they're going to leave the Network over it, that's on them. If you feel like they're arguing in good faith? Feel free, as a human being, to have that deeper conversation with them. But in terms of what's expected of a moderator in a vacuum, there's no obligation to discuss the ban. 8. I don't personally believe it's good to have people involved in the heat of an argument be the one making ban decisions. I know I personally have never banned anyone for attacking me. If another mod steps in and thinks it's banworthy, from an unbiased, objective point of view, then they can pull that trigger instead. Just to Seth's replies: 1. Agreed. 2. Agreed and is a good idea. We don't necessarily have a tiered system, but we've discussed a three strike rule as far as permabanning goes (I believe this was also a rule on the old XHF boards as well). The lack of a system in place is because in the 2+ years we've had a discord, we haven't had issues like this. We have 80 members currently, and that's after a 30 day inactivity culling. We only have two members banned from the discord and I'm pretty sure they were banned here as well due to some extremely offensive behavior to everyone, iirc. I'm in favor of guidelining something like this now that it's clearly warranted. I can admit we should've had something in place long before hand and will work to rectify and let it be publicly known. 3. Agreed. And that is something I think people need to remember, there's a block/ignore function in Discord. 4. Agreed and coincidentally that person is sitting on a 2 strike count and we let them know where they stand with us. Next time is a ban. 5. Agreed but you missed the other half of the issue. 6. Agreed. 7. Agreed and that's what exactly what happened for the most part. 8. Agreed.
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Post by jamesmueller on Sept 30, 2019 17:23:51 GMT -5
7) Realize that yeah, that member is upset because they were very much wronged by someone in charge of keeping the order Also, you know the jailing on me was complete horseshit, and you acknowledged it as being a wrong decision. Your inability to stand up to your friends who made a wrong decision led to #7. You know how six could have been resolved? Saying "hey we fucked up" and letting me out of jail instead of keeping me in there because it amused the admin team. Your staffers were completely out of line and moving the goalposts back every five minutes to rile me up forward, including Dust himself messaging you that he would be keeping me in the jail after I respectfully, peacefully, and levelheadedly asked to be let out privately after I had cooled odwn, which was what was asked of me in the first place... but you're going to blame me because I'm a loud ass hothead. It's almost like if people keep holding a lighter up to a puddle of what you know is gasoline, it'll explode, but sure, blame the gas. THEN I was kept in jail after being told it was only going to be towards morning, and you ask me not to be upset by that? C'mon fellas, this isn't hard! Caffrey gets upset when he's getting abused, so stop abusing him. This is not rocket science. But Mongo, in all serious "doing your best" is letting your admin friends abuse your members and walk around unchecked because "they've been here", then you need to aim a bit higher, man. That's just a ridiculous claim, and I hope it isn't a serious one. What kind of message does it send to the "Network Era" members if you automatically side with the admin staff, who mostly doesn't have any skin in the game, over the people who are working their asses off for this network everytime? We just came off of a 17-match show and instead of being excited for the Network I'm more disenfranchised with it than I've ever been. This thread has been a beacon of light in the darkness, but I will fully admit sitting here mumbling that I don't think anything real is going to change. Also --- if no one wants to be a mod or admin --- instead of thinking the people who just want rules and regulations in place, maybe hire the people who have come to you and said they would do it. I know for a fact Bobby Barratt has asked about this more than once. I'm am a big believer of transparency, and if anyone wants receipts in the form of transcripts, I got receipts. Feel free to reach out.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 30, 2019 21:32:29 GMT -5
Yes, but if he doesn’t mean it, I’m not taking it. This has yet to happen btw. Well Rob did but the rest hasn't. I don’t think he meant it, but alright, I guess. But yeah, I guess I owe Rob an apology. I’m sorry, Rob. I disagree with you on a lot of what you want me to apologize for, so I am not going to voice my discontentment or poke the bear during my apology like you did, I’m just going to voice that I hope that we can actually get along civilly and one day we can be in the Discord at the same time and talk things through in a respectful manner. If I caused you distress in retaliation, that was my fault, and I apologize. I think you’ve been right to feel anger about being usurped by the new Discord, but I hope that everything can go forward smoothly. Thanks.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 30, 2019 21:34:22 GMT -5
7) Realize that yeah, that member is upset because they were very much wronged by someone in charge of keeping the order Also, you know the jailing on me was complete horseshit, and you acknowledged it as being a wrong decision. Your inability to stand up to your friends who made a wrong decision led to #7. You know how six could have been resolved? Saying "hey we fucked up" and letting me out of jail instead of keeping me in there because it amused the admin team. Your staffers were completely out of line and moving the goalposts back every five minutes to rile me up forward, including Dust himself messaging you that he would be keeping me in the jail after I respectfully, peacefully, and levelheadedly asked to be let out privately after I had cooled odwn, which was what was asked of me in the first place... but you're going to blame me because I'm a loud ass hothead. It's almost like if people keep holding a lighter up to a puddle of what you know is gasoline, it'll explode, but sure, blame the gas. THEN I was kept in jail after being told it was only going to be towards morning, and you ask me not to be upset by that? C'mon fellas, this isn't hard! Caffrey gets upset when he's getting abused, so stop abusing him. This is not rocket science. But Mongo, in all serious "doing your best" is letting your admin friends abuse your members and walk around unchecked because "they've been here", then you need to aim a bit higher, man. That's just a ridiculous claim, and I hope it isn't a serious one. What kind of message does it send to the "Network Era" members if you automatically side with the admin staff, who mostly doesn't have any skin in the game, over the people who are working their asses off for this network everytime? We just came off of a 17-match show and instead of being excited for the Network I'm more disenfranchised with it than I've ever been. This thread has been a beacon of light in the darkness, but I will fully admit sitting here mumbling that I don't think anything real is going to change. Also --- if no one wants to be a mod or admin --- instead of thinking the people who just want rules and regulations in place, maybe hire the people who have come to you and said they would do it. I know for a fact Bobby Barratt has asked about this more than once. I'm am a big believer of transparency, and if anyone wants receipts in the form of transcripts, I got receipts. Feel free to reach out. If you’d like to read me getting mad at following your suggestions and being told it still wasn’t good enough, after getting banned for getting screamed at and having my person trashed by an administrator, fee free to read them.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 30, 2019 21:40:12 GMT -5
It’s almost like when someone gets banned unreasonably and then follows moderator instruction, big effin’ shock, they’ll be upset when the administrations keep refusing to honor what they’ve actually said, and then it gets worse when you have an active quote from an administrator basically saying he’ll fuck with you further even you are trying to be as civil as possible in a bad situation.
Yeah.
I dunno if you wanted me to be saintly, but even reasonably good was nowhere near close to escape a jailing I didn’t even deserve in the first place.
🤷🏻♂️
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Post by jamesmueller on Sept 30, 2019 22:13:41 GMT -5
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:16 PM are you kidding? that asshole rob arnold fucking trashes me for twenty minutes and this is what you do? the nasty, vulgar, fucking mean shit and then mav's being an antagonizer and I tell him to stfu. oh come on, like that's fucking fair or even dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:19 PM All I see is you telling people to shut the fuck up and telling at a couple people. Even if you're justified in being upset you're going about it a terrible way. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:19 PM I have to go speak in radio chat and set records straight you are keeping me from doing so it is not helping anyone dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:20 PM You're lashing out and you're upset CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:20 PM if you're not going to ban rob arnold, at least let me go fucking talk in the radio chat yeah because you're keeping me from having a say in an argument where the other guy gets to call me a child and an asshole and rip apart my character and credibility how is that any bit fucking fair Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:22 PM Take it out on him in RP. I didn’t put you in here but it’s clear you need to calm down. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:22 PM for fucks sake dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:22 PM Maybe cool yourself off first and handle it in a fashion that is constructive than causing more issues CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:22 PM I'm cool and collected, you're pissing me off more by holding me here when I'm trying to fucking handle a situation like a man Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:23 PM I’m not sure what you’re definition of handling it like a man is but mine is to walk away from a bad situation CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:24 PM ffs the longer this goes, the more of an abuse of power this is, for the record y'all choose how long you want me in here, it's your call dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:26 PM The deal is nobody's going to listen if you're acting like this. But even if you had the answers to life's secrets nobody's going to listen if you're cursing and ranting at people while trying to do so. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:27 PM I'm cursing because the standard is incredibly backward and it's very upsetting what do you want me to do, dust? dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:27 PM I recommend writing out a well thought out response and putting it in the OOC forum. Even if you somehow think we're abusing power by trying to keep a full blown shit show form here. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:27 PM stand here and take abuse by the admins? OH NO, I AIN'T PUTTING IT IN THERE @mongo the Destroyer will shit on me Mongo the DestroyerLast Saturday at 11:28 PM it's true, i will soooo dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:28 PM Mongo can shit on you here too Mongo the DestroyerLast Saturday at 11:28 PM why don't i open up something on the board CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:28 PM this is some bullshit, let me out of the jail Mongo the DestroyerLast Saturday at 11:28 PM where we can figure out all the stuff BUT CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:28 PM mongo, let me out of the jail Mongo the DestroyerLast Saturday at 11:28 PM no curses no insults CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:28 PM mongo, let me out of the jail I will not ask you again you know this is an unfair overreaction. you know it. and then you wonder why i get upset at you. Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:31 PM Nothing you’re doing is helping. No one is going to do what you want because you tell them too. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:31 PM THEN WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT ME TO DO, SCORPS? DANCE AROUND LIKE A FUCKING BALLERINA? jesus christ there isnt' a single damn thing I could do and you know it your admin buddy fucking ripped me a new one, called me a child, a jackass, an asshole, and went on a barrage of insults for over five minutes towards me and you guys JAILED ME how in the world is that fair? how in the world does that follow any set of rules? @mongo Farts Into Jars Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:33 PM Walk away. Calm down. Deal with it when you’ve got a level head. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:33 PM @mongo the Destroyer Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:34 PM What got you in here was the yelling at people in the text chat, which we can all see, the second you got on for a joke. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:34 PM I'm trying to go set the goddamn record straight and instead I gotta deal with you two dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:34 PM Nobody said or reported anything in the voice chat CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:34 PM oh give me a fucking break, dust here's my report: dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:35 PM This is the first we're hearing it CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:35 PM your admin buddy fucking ripped me a new one, called me a child, a jackass, an asshole, and went on a barrage of insults for over five minutes towards me Maverick, Kuroi, Reck, Dragon, Hunter, all heard it so did Mongo, at least the back half go ask them AWF guys and NON AWF guys heard it Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:35 PM We’re discussing what happened. We don’t have to discuss it with you What we need to discuss with you is you calming down dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:35 PM I'm not saying we were waiting for a formal report but that all at see is you losing your shit at people Robs gone for the night, and you need a breather anyways CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:37 PM i was level headed until you two fucking shut me in here Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:37 PM You weren’t. dusthimselfLast Saturday at 11:37 PM You're still not. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:37 PM yeah, because you both are burning my daylight here how am I supposed to respond to two admins protecting their admin bro? kindly? with a smile? "hi scorps! hi dust! yeah, rob can fuck me right in the ass, okay?" Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:38 PM No, you can walk away and let it go. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:38 PM c'mon fellas like you both know it's unfair you both know it's bullshit and then you pretend I'm going to take that shit laying down? do you even know me? lol Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:41 PM No I don’t and the way you act I don’t want to. You don’t listen to anyone else. Rob is gone. There is no one for you to respond to. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:42 PM I would like to talk to my friends. I know you can't imagine me having friends, but I have friends. Your guy baited me and I didn't even say a damn thing to him except remarking about how it wasn't very adminly, which you and I both know it wasn't, Scorps. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:56 PM it's been at least 15 minutes @dead Venom @dusthimself can I come out, please? Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:56 PM I’m not the one who put you in. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:57 PM do you not have the power to remove it? Dead VenomLast Saturday at 11:58 PM It’s not up to me. CaffreyLast Saturday at 11:58 PM huh? "the more you DM me, the more I'm going to keep you in"? really? is a please and thank you and me being level-headed not good enough? what am I missing? CaffreyYesterday at 12:43 AM hello? bueller? @dusthimself please? @price ? PriceYesterday at 12:48 AM
CaffreyYesterday at 12:51 AM please don't make fun of me for a situation where I really got fucked over and am still sitting in jail when even mongo is like "Yeah that was fucked", it's bad, man lol dusthimselfYesterday at 12:54 AM Please, tell me more of what mongo's saying. PriceYesterday at 12:56 AM I'm going to bed, I suggest you do the same and cool off for the night. That's all I have to say on the situation since I wasn't involved. CaffreyYesterday at 12:59 AM I've been cooled off for like at least an hour now nah, dust, you can ask him if you want to know. CaffreyYesterday at 8:37 AM It is now morning. I am still in jail. CaffreyYesterday at 9:13 AM I was told repeatedly that I was in jail until morning to cool down. I have cooled down and am asking to be released. Please do so. Thank you. @dusthimself ?
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