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Post by Robbie A on Sept 29, 2019 10:35:31 GMT -5
Well I did mine. It was sincere. And Kuroi I wasn’t planning on speaking to you for a few days anyway.
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Drag
.::XHF Competitor::.
Shoegazer Watched The Stars
Posts: 158
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Post by Drag on Sept 29, 2019 10:51:03 GMT -5
Gonna try be a little bit more big picture here now that I've sobered up, before that I'm gonna quickly get in Kent's 2 Cents about the matter last night. I consider Rob a friend, I don't consider Caffrey one so hey I may well come across as bias which is why I'm going to try and give some evidence to my claims wherever possible, especially since this is supposed to be a more serious affair rather than "he said she said". First thing I'm going to say is that Rob was not in the right last night, I think in terms of how he acted he'd agree with that but I also said to him that the second discord thing wasn't likely to pan out (I'll expand on that in a bit) so don't get too worked up over it but that led to the argument with Seth. I think, as a person not really having much personal investment in the argument, it was far too confrontational when it absolutely didn't need to be and on that note Rob drunkenly ranting at Caff was also something I don't support. Having said that, Caffrey I'm not sure anymore whether you even mean to do this, but you're framing yourself as the victim being harassed by multiple parties when that simply isn't true. Last night Rob stepped over the line when yelling at you, but you absolutely are not the victim in this because you; Joined the call being immediately confrontational, and were arguing back at Rob through text. You are not a helpless victim, at the very best you were on the defensive which is the other thing I'll back you up on in that, I don't think Caff should have been jailed, rather I think he should have been muted or jailed however Rob should have also been muted or kicked when it was clear he was on a rant, followed by a dm telling both individually to cool off and come back tomorrow if they still felt as strong about it, which being fair, both probably would have. Despite what he may believe I don't hate Caffrey and I also don't really want this to be a Fuck Caffrey thread sans namecalling because there's other issues contributing to a more hostile/defensive environment. But I also am of the opinion Caffrey plays his part in that most of all. I've been able to get along with Caff at times and even recently I think it'd be fair to say we've been pretty cordial to one another, but at times I'd say not only are you not a person being baited and harassed, you exhibit behaviour I would liken to that of a bully, I'll give a couple of examples. - Telling a fedhead not to merge or share talent with Duke, citing reasons that were at best a year or more out of date, some of which you weren't personally there for. I will give you some slight lee-way in that you said the fedhead came to you asking for advice, but I still firmly stand by my belief that what makes this aggravating is you keeping it from Duke and not giving him a chance to talk to the fedhead to argue his own case and defend himself because he didn't even know this had happened until the fedhead already made up his mind (Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots because this predominantly took place on voice chat but there are multiple people, Caffrey included, who can back me up that this happened) - The passive aggressive way you've treated Draven, I know you might say this is you being IC or trying to drum up interest in the match but the reason I've highlighted it is because it's very, clear, that Draven didn't want to play along, or at the very least was aggravated by it and wanted you to stop. Couple that with you doing it during a (surprise surprise) argument in the discord which really just added fuel to the fire and turned it into another classic AWF=BIAS argument with Hunter it just comes across even more childish. The most damning part of this, for me, is that afterwords when you clearly reflected and I assume felt you went a little far, you messaged DRAGO and asked for her to talk to and apologise to Draven on your behalf instead of talking to him directly, I fail to see why you would do that at all man. As I said previously I don't want to lambaste Caffrey for the sake of lambasting him. To be completely frank I'd love nothing more than for him to show up acting different and make me eat my words. But those two examples are just drops in the bucket. There's your argument(s) with Drago which before you both seemed like friends now both of you seem to make the odd passive aggressive swipe at one another, there's saying to people that Dice Wrestling isn't as legitimate or shouldn't be taken as seriously turning Dread against you (You can say you take it more seriously now and brought it the X*Crown as evidence which I'd be inclined to agree with had there not just recently been another argument between you two predicated on passive aggressive IC "shoot" rp's). It's like, the people telling you to fuck off or calling you names are in the wrong, I've said to Mav's face he shouldn't do that shit. But you need to understand and even if you personally disagree with EVERYTHING I've listed, please please understand that people are not coming after you because of jealousy or to annoy you or bait you or anything of that nature, it's because you've slighted people intentionally or not, you've said things that are just needlessly confrontational or insulting ("I am the co-captain of AWF with Seth", "We OFFICIALLY support Stormcrow bringing the Euro title over here") Dress it up however you please but the end result is it's not very nice and it's rubbing many people the wrong way, causing them to lash out which in turn is clearly affecting your emotional and mental health in an extremely negative manner, it's a vicious cycle and I'm glad this thread was made Mongo because we get to talk about it while doing our best to leave ego's at the door so that hopefully this repeat cycle fueled by stubbornness can actually get solved. This went on longer than I would have liked for the sake of trying to be thorough, I'll finish by saying I genuinely would like a community in which we can shoot the shit and say whatever to one another without the fear that it will be read into and taken personally or that we'll be dog-piled for saying anything at all and can't speak up about it without the worry of ridicule. But in saying that this second discord idea is, to be frank, awful. I am saying this to anyone who supports it that trying to separate the servers under a fairly flimsy justification of having an "official" and "un-official" server is going to only complete the divide we're already feeling, it's the last thing that would help anyone as everyone retreats into their own echo chamber without ever reaching a resolution with the other and sucking the enjoyment, maybe quickly maybe slowly, out of a niche hobby we're all united by in our enjoyment. I'm Drag, my dad hates me, le crab has arrived
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 29, 2019 10:56:43 GMT -5
Okay, I was going to stay out of this so I didn't get any repercussions from it, but I need to say this. I love AWF and the other feds in the network. But Caffrey since you joined AWF you have been the cause of their problems, let me explain something when you go telling outsiders personal XHF Network business personally my business to people that could have been new members to the Network and to my fed PSW because of your personal vendetta against me that not only makes you look bad but makes AWF look bad and the XHF Network look bad and I won't explain how just think about it. Then you want to complain about my AIW championship that I can cash in for an Xcrown title shot saying you refuse to allow me to cash it in because it would be a cotton candy title shot. Another example of your personal vendetta against me. And just think about it there have been other championships cashed in against you personally with less time as a championship or fed. So don't act like your innocent or that everyone is targetting you. You want everyone to get along and stop going against you then chill out and actually change not just put on a show. Let's go back over this because apparently more than just you is still upset over it:Right now, if someone came to you and said I had 30 guys who wanted to join XHF, based on all of the drama going around right now, would you tell them to come in, or would you tell them hey that you didn't think it was a good decision at that time? I think if you're a man of the moral character I believe you to be, you'd say yeah, not right now, it's kinda toxic, stay away. I was approached by BronsamBonsai, an e/feds reddit user, and asked my opinion on your potential merger. Bonsai and I have become friends because we survived all of that drama, and we have grown to respect each other as users. He asked me what I thought about you and your company, and morally, I sat there and argued with myself for at least a day before deciding to tell him about: 1) Your long, long history of plagarizing, which has since continued since we even had this conversation, when you plagarized someone's top ten list on the Reddit and didn't even take take the name "Trinity Wrestling" off of it. As much as I have problems and arguments with people, I can not get on board with that. You received a lifetime ban from AXW that was only lifted because of the last show, because you did it so often and got caught. That is NOT what I want people to think of when they think of the XHF. That is also why I called you out in public when you did that. We are being held to the highest standard in the e/feds Reddit world because we are the #1, the New York Yankees, and the rest of the community even to this day still begrudgingly hates us/downvotes us a bit. Anytime any of us missteps, as happened with vasty (sorry vasty), we are labeled as all of us being whatever the crime was. If this thread were out in public right now, we would all be judged as toxic dickheads and no one would want to be here. Your history of plagarism is something I can not endorse. 2) Your Gangja boys characters, which quite frankly are extremely racist. The most offensive line in them is "Ganja Lives Matter", taking a twist on the whole Black Lives Matter thing, where black people in our country are rallying and protesting because they keep getting shot by the police. I'm not about to drag politics into this, but knowing where you stand in the aisle, I would not be shocked for you to not understand the massive gravity of that situation, and why those words are in such poor taste. But I can't endorse that, either. I gave in my opinion about those two things, they apparently did more looking around after that fact, and made the decision to not go with it. I can not endorse anything I wouldn't personally go along with, and right now, I wouldn't personally endorse that stuff. It's not for me. If I was aware of the apparently exceedingly large quantity of members Bonsai would have brought, I probably would have just shut my mouth. I was not. I knew no details beyond the guy asking for my opinion. I've heard some people go "well you just wanted them for yourself", which is a complete falsehood. I know that if 40 people suddenly showed up, naturally we would get a trickle in for ourselves, and I understand if other users are upset because of that trickledown not occurring for their own companies, but again, morally I didn't feel it was the right thing, and I'd rather have a backbone then skirt my standards. I'm sorry I upset you and hurt you, but I would also do it again in a variety of similar situations. ____________ I never refused to defend against you. I would gladly beat you for the 21st championship for the Crown. Is that egotistical? Very, but I come from a world where I believe that you're allowed to carry yourself with a bit of swag if you earn it, and I've earned the right to say so. Is that probably worse than flatout refusing? Probably, but I'm aware that most of you won't like anything I say anyway. AIW existed for two shows. Every flash-in-the-pan that Mongo recruits that doesn't work out (which is getting to be in increasing number these days) is not worth being included into the X-Crown, a championship belt that lasted for 10+ years. I don't think that statement is untrue, as harsh at is. I very sarcastically the other day made the point that I could just make a fed, run two shows, and the belt would count for an X-Crown shot to demonstrate this point, which was kinda an asshole move, but is something I feel is a fair point. I never called your shot directly a cotton candy title shot, but I don't think a championship that wasn't even defended once in its home company shouldn't count. And that includes the IRW Heavyweight Championship (RIP Swann) as well. I don't think these rules or guidelines for the X-Crown are that extreme. The belt's been around for 10+ years and has more prestige than most of the companies in the e-fedding world. Not every joeblow company should get to be buried into it. And yes, this all means that SBW shouldn't have counted or shouldn't have gotten a match. If we want to cancel that out, that's alright, I get it, I can agree to that. ______ I don't have a personal vendetta against you. Just isn't true, there. Hope this helped some.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 29, 2019 11:06:07 GMT -5
Again, the plagarizing is not out of date, when it literally happened again maybe a month or two ago. I stand by those opinions. You and I talked about it and it came out that I completely hadn't thought about letting Duke have his chance in court about it, and I regret that, but at the same time, that's my take.
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Draven famously does not allow you to send direct messages unless you're friends, we weren't friends at that time, so I couldn't message him.
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I had forgotten about the European Championship thing, but yeah, it feels exactly like StormCrow, who has just as much of a chance of winning as anyone else, is going to get screwed over by a decision against the AWF being done by spite from the admin team. He is not being allowed to carry over the championship if he wins. Not sure what is actually supposed to happen with the belt, but stripping it from him is kinda crap, and doubly crap if it's just given to another fed then.
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Seth and I are co-captaining AWF. That wasn't presented in any kind of way, and I didn't realize that actually pissed people off. Sorry. Just how it is, was trying to explain it so people could get a better understanding of what we're working with.
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I have bullied Draven a bit during the build up to this, that's 100% on me, and Draven, if you're reading this, sorry.
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Yeah, second Discord seems like Mongo just being unable to make a decision. I get that most of the admins are his friends, but if stuff doesn't get worked out, a decision needs to be made one way or another. I am not going to continue to participate in a Discord where the admin staff abusively moves with such unchecked power.
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Rob apology will be coming in a bit, I'm still kinda not in a great place and don't want to do something piss-poor with it
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Post by Venom 🕷 on Sept 29, 2019 11:07:17 GMT -5
Gonna try be a little bit more big picture here now that I've sobered up, before that I'm gonna quickly get in Kent's 2 Cents about the matter last night. I consider Rob a friend, I don't consider Caffrey one so hey I may well come across as bias which is why I'm going to try and give some evidence to my claims wherever possible, especially since this is supposed to be a more serious affair rather than "he said she said". First thing I'm going to say is that Rob was not in the right last night, I think in terms of how he acted he'd agree with that but I also said to him that the second discord thing wasn't likely to pan out (I'll expand on that in a bit) so don't get too worked up over it but that led to the argument with Seth. I think, as a person not really having much personal investment in the argument, it was far too confrontational when it absolutely didn't need to be and on that note Rob drunkenly ranting at Caff was also something I don't support. Having said that, Caffrey I'm not sure anymore whether you even mean to do this, but you're framing yourself as the victim being harassed by multiple parties when that simply isn't true. Last night Rob stepped over the line when yelling at you, but you absolutely are not the victim in this because you; Joined the call being immediately confrontational, and were arguing back at Rob through text. You are not a helpless victim, at the very best you were on the defensive which is the other thing I'll back you up on in that, I don't think Caff should have been jailed, rather I think he should have been muted or jailed however Rob should have also been muted or kicked when it was clear he was on a rant, followed by a dm telling both individually to cool off and come back tomorrow if they still felt as strong about it, which being fair, both probably would have. Despite what he may believe I don't hate Caffrey and I also don't really want this to be a Fuck Caffrey thread sans namecalling because there's other issues contributing to a more hostile/defensive environment. But I also am of the opinion Caffrey plays his part in that most of all. I've been able to get along with Caff at times and even recently I think it'd be fair to say we've been pretty cordial to one another, but at times I'd say not only are you not a person being baited and harassed, you exhibit behaviour I would liken to that of a bully, I'll give a couple of examples. - Telling a fedhead not to merge or share talent with Duke, citing reasons that were at best a year or more out of date, some of which you weren't personally there for. I will give you some slight lee-way in that you said the fedhead came to you asking for advice, but I still firmly stand by my belief that what makes this aggravating is you keeping it from Duke and not giving him a chance to talk to the fedhead to argue his own case and defend himself because he didn't even know this had happened until the fedhead already made up his mind (Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots because this predominantly took place on voice chat but there are multiple people, Caffrey included, who can back me up that this happened) - The passive aggressive way you've treated Draven, I know you might say this is you being IC or trying to drum up interest in the match but the reason I've highlighted it is because it's very, clear, that Draven didn't want to play along, or at the very least was aggravated by it and wanted you to stop. Couple that with you doing it during a (surprise surprise) argument in the discord which really just added fuel to the fire and turned it into another classic AWF=BIAS argument with Hunter it just comes across even more childish. The most damning part of this, for me, is that afterwords when you clearly reflected and I assume felt you went a little far, you messaged DRAGO and asked for her to talk to and apologise to Draven on your behalf instead of talking to him directly, I fail to see why you would do that at all man. As I said previously I don't want to lambaste Caffrey for the sake of lambasting him. To be completely frank I'd love nothing more than for him to show up acting different and make me eat my words. But those two examples are just drops in the bucket. There's your argument(s) with Drago which before you both seemed like friends now both of you seem to make the odd passive aggressive swipe at one another, there's saying to people that Dice Wrestling isn't as legitimate or shouldn't be taken as seriously turning Dread against you (You can say you take it more seriously now and brought it the X*Crown as evidence which I'd be inclined to agree with had there not just recently been another argument between you two predicated on passive aggressive IC "shoot" rp's). It's like, the people telling you to fuck off or calling you names are in the wrong, I've said to Mav's face he shouldn't do that shit. But you need to understand and even if you personally disagree with EVERYTHING I've listed, please please understand that people are not coming after you because of jealousy or to annoy you or bait you or anything of that nature, it's because you've slighted people intentionally or not, you've said things that are just needlessly confrontational or insulting ("I am the co-captain of AWF with Seth", "We OFFICIALLY support Stormcrow bringing the Euro title over here") Dress it up however you please but the end result is it's not very nice and it's rubbing many people the wrong way, causing them to lash out which in turn is clearly affecting your emotional and mental health in an extremely negative manner, it's a vicious cycle and I'm glad this thread was made Mongo because we get to talk about it while doing our best to leave ego's at the door so that hopefully this repeat cycle fueled by stubbornness can actually get solved. This went on longer than I would have liked for the sake of trying to be thorough, I'll finish by saying I genuinely would like a community in which we can shoot the shit and say whatever to one another without the fear that it will be read into and taken personally or that we'll be dog-piled for saying anything at all and can't speak up about it without the worry of ridicule. But in saying that this second discord idea is, to be frank, awful. I am saying this to anyone who supports it that trying to separate the servers under a fairly flimsy justification of having an "official" and "un-official" server is going to only complete the divide we're already feeling, it's the last thing that would help anyone as everyone retreats into their own echo chamber without ever reaching a resolution with the other and sucking the enjoyment, maybe quickly maybe slowly, out of a niche hobby we're all united by in our enjoyment. I'm Drag, my dad hates me, le crab has arrived Thank you Drag. I enjoyed reading this. I want to touch on why we Dust put Caff in jail and we didn’t do something as quickly to Rob. Dust may have been on the radio chat, I don’t know. If he was he didn’t understand what was happening until after the fact. What we saw, multiple admins, was Caff lashing out in text and so he got jailed. When we realized Rob was also in the wrong because of what he was saying we took action, but he’d already logged off so no one could tell. We then discussed at length what to do with Rob and de-admined him and muted him server wide for the weekend too cool off. Looking back he was more wrong and if we could go back and take swifter action against him we would, but unfortunately we can’t.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 29, 2019 11:08:36 GMT -5
While I am here, I think it's clear that the XHF Radio Chat needs to have a mod or an admin on it during all discussions, or it can't be used.
It's too many times become the place where a bitchfest about users occurs, and people say whatever they want because there is no record of it. It's straight up a toxic breeding ground for all sides at this point.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 29, 2019 11:09:33 GMT -5
Gonna try be a little bit more big picture here now that I've sobered up, before that I'm gonna quickly get in Kent's 2 Cents about the matter last night. I consider Rob a friend, I don't consider Caffrey one so hey I may well come across as bias which is why I'm going to try and give some evidence to my claims wherever possible, especially since this is supposed to be a more serious affair rather than "he said she said". First thing I'm going to say is that Rob was not in the right last night, I think in terms of how he acted he'd agree with that but I also said to him that the second discord thing wasn't likely to pan out (I'll expand on that in a bit) so don't get too worked up over it but that led to the argument with Seth. I think, as a person not really having much personal investment in the argument, it was far too confrontational when it absolutely didn't need to be and on that note Rob drunkenly ranting at Caff was also something I don't support. Having said that, Caffrey I'm not sure anymore whether you even mean to do this, but you're framing yourself as the victim being harassed by multiple parties when that simply isn't true. Last night Rob stepped over the line when yelling at you, but you absolutely are not the victim in this because you; Joined the call being immediately confrontational, and were arguing back at Rob through text. You are not a helpless victim, at the very best you were on the defensive which is the other thing I'll back you up on in that, I don't think Caff should have been jailed, rather I think he should have been muted or jailed however Rob should have also been muted or kicked when it was clear he was on a rant, followed by a dm telling both individually to cool off and come back tomorrow if they still felt as strong about it, which being fair, both probably would have. Despite what he may believe I don't hate Caffrey and I also don't really want this to be a Fuck Caffrey thread sans namecalling because there's other issues contributing to a more hostile/defensive environment. But I also am of the opinion Caffrey plays his part in that most of all. I've been able to get along with Caff at times and even recently I think it'd be fair to say we've been pretty cordial to one another, but at times I'd say not only are you not a person being baited and harassed, you exhibit behaviour I would liken to that of a bully, I'll give a couple of examples. - Telling a fedhead not to merge or share talent with Duke, citing reasons that were at best a year or more out of date, some of which you weren't personally there for. I will give you some slight lee-way in that you said the fedhead came to you asking for advice, but I still firmly stand by my belief that what makes this aggravating is you keeping it from Duke and not giving him a chance to talk to the fedhead to argue his own case and defend himself because he didn't even know this had happened until the fedhead already made up his mind (Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots because this predominantly took place on voice chat but there are multiple people, Caffrey included, who can back me up that this happened) - The passive aggressive way you've treated Draven, I know you might say this is you being IC or trying to drum up interest in the match but the reason I've highlighted it is because it's very, clear, that Draven didn't want to play along, or at the very least was aggravated by it and wanted you to stop. Couple that with you doing it during a (surprise surprise) argument in the discord which really just added fuel to the fire and turned it into another classic AWF=BIAS argument with Hunter it just comes across even more childish. The most damning part of this, for me, is that afterwords when you clearly reflected and I assume felt you went a little far, you messaged DRAGO and asked for her to talk to and apologise to Draven on your behalf instead of talking to him directly, I fail to see why you would do that at all man. As I said previously I don't want to lambaste Caffrey for the sake of lambasting him. To be completely frank I'd love nothing more than for him to show up acting different and make me eat my words. But those two examples are just drops in the bucket. There's your argument(s) with Drago which before you both seemed like friends now both of you seem to make the odd passive aggressive swipe at one another, there's saying to people that Dice Wrestling isn't as legitimate or shouldn't be taken as seriously turning Dread against you (You can say you take it more seriously now and brought it the X*Crown as evidence which I'd be inclined to agree with had there not just recently been another argument between you two predicated on passive aggressive IC "shoot" rp's). It's like, the people telling you to fuck off or calling you names are in the wrong, I've said to Mav's face he shouldn't do that shit. But you need to understand and even if you personally disagree with EVERYTHING I've listed, please please understand that people are not coming after you because of jealousy or to annoy you or bait you or anything of that nature, it's because you've slighted people intentionally or not, you've said things that are just needlessly confrontational or insulting ("I am the co-captain of AWF with Seth", "We OFFICIALLY support Stormcrow bringing the Euro title over here") Dress it up however you please but the end result is it's not very nice and it's rubbing many people the wrong way, causing them to lash out which in turn is clearly affecting your emotional and mental health in an extremely negative manner, it's a vicious cycle and I'm glad this thread was made Mongo because we get to talk about it while doing our best to leave ego's at the door so that hopefully this repeat cycle fueled by stubbornness can actually get solved. This went on longer than I would have liked for the sake of trying to be thorough, I'll finish by saying I genuinely would like a community in which we can shoot the shit and say whatever to one another without the fear that it will be read into and taken personally or that we'll be dog-piled for saying anything at all and can't speak up about it without the worry of ridicule. But in saying that this second discord idea is, to be frank, awful. I am saying this to anyone who supports it that trying to separate the servers under a fairly flimsy justification of having an "official" and "un-official" server is going to only complete the divide we're already feeling, it's the last thing that would help anyone as everyone retreats into their own echo chamber without ever reaching a resolution with the other and sucking the enjoyment, maybe quickly maybe slowly, out of a niche hobby we're all united by in our enjoyment. I'm Drag, my dad hates me, le crab has arrived Thank you Drag. I enjoyed reading this. I want to touch on why we Dust put Caff in jail and we didn’t do something as quickly to Rob. Dust may have been on the radio chat, I don’t know. If he was he didn’t understand what was happening until after the fact. What we saw, multiple admins, was Caff lashing out in text and so he got jailed. When we realized Rob was also in the wrong because of what he was saying we took action, but he’d already logged off so no one could tell. We then discussed at length what to do with Rob and de-admined him and muted him server wide for the weekend too cool off. Looking back he was more wrong and if we could go back and take swifter action against him we would, but unfortunately we can’t. Appreciate the honesty here. Not as appreciative as then having being unjailed dangled over me like a carrot, but this is a solid, solid step in the right direction.
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Post by jamesmueller on Sept 29, 2019 11:39:11 GMT -5
Gonna try be a little bit more big picture here now that I've sobered up, before that I'm gonna quickly get in Kent's 2 Cents about the matter last night. I consider Rob a friend, I don't consider Caffrey one so hey I may well come across as bias which is why I'm going to try and give some evidence to my claims wherever possible, especially since this is supposed to be a more serious affair rather than "he said she said". First thing I'm going to say is that Rob was not in the right last night, I think in terms of how he acted he'd agree with that but I also said to him that the second discord thing wasn't likely to pan out (I'll expand on that in a bit) so don't get too worked up over it but that led to the argument with Seth. I think, as a person not really having much personal investment in the argument, it was far too confrontational when it absolutely didn't need to be and on that note Rob drunkenly ranting at Caff was also something I don't support. Having said that, Caffrey I'm not sure anymore whether you even mean to do this, but you're framing yourself as the victim being harassed by multiple parties when that simply isn't true. Last night Rob stepped over the line when yelling at you, but you absolutely are not the victim in this because you; Joined the call being immediately confrontational, and were arguing back at Rob through text. You are not a helpless victim, at the very best you were on the defensive which is the other thing I'll back you up on in that, I don't think Caff should have been jailed, rather I think he should have been muted or jailed however Rob should have also been muted or kicked when it was clear he was on a rant, followed by a dm telling both individually to cool off and come back tomorrow if they still felt as strong about it, which being fair, both probably would have. Despite what he may believe I don't hate Caffrey and I also don't really want this to be a Fuck Caffrey thread sans namecalling because there's other issues contributing to a more hostile/defensive environment. But I also am of the opinion Caffrey plays his part in that most of all. I've been able to get along with Caff at times and even recently I think it'd be fair to say we've been pretty cordial to one another, but at times I'd say not only are you not a person being baited and harassed, you exhibit behaviour I would liken to that of a bully, I'll give a couple of examples. - Telling a fedhead not to merge or share talent with Duke, citing reasons that were at best a year or more out of date, some of which you weren't personally there for. I will give you some slight lee-way in that you said the fedhead came to you asking for advice, but I still firmly stand by my belief that what makes this aggravating is you keeping it from Duke and not giving him a chance to talk to the fedhead to argue his own case and defend himself because he didn't even know this had happened until the fedhead already made up his mind (Unfortunately I can't provide any screenshots because this predominantly took place on voice chat but there are multiple people, Caffrey included, who can back me up that this happened) - The passive aggressive way you've treated Draven, I know you might say this is you being IC or trying to drum up interest in the match but the reason I've highlighted it is because it's very, clear, that Draven didn't want to play along, or at the very least was aggravated by it and wanted you to stop. Couple that with you doing it during a (surprise surprise) argument in the discord which really just added fuel to the fire and turned it into another classic AWF=BIAS argument with Hunter it just comes across even more childish. The most damning part of this, for me, is that afterwords when you clearly reflected and I assume felt you went a little far, you messaged DRAGO and asked for her to talk to and apologise to Draven on your behalf instead of talking to him directly, I fail to see why you would do that at all man. As I said previously I don't want to lambaste Caffrey for the sake of lambasting him. To be completely frank I'd love nothing more than for him to show up acting different and make me eat my words. But those two examples are just drops in the bucket. There's your argument(s) with Drago which before you both seemed like friends now both of you seem to make the odd passive aggressive swipe at one another, there's saying to people that Dice Wrestling isn't as legitimate or shouldn't be taken as seriously turning Dread against you (You can say you take it more seriously now and brought it the X*Crown as evidence which I'd be inclined to agree with had there not just recently been another argument between you two predicated on passive aggressive IC "shoot" rp's). It's like, the people telling you to fuck off or calling you names are in the wrong, I've said to Mav's face he shouldn't do that shit. But you need to understand and even if you personally disagree with EVERYTHING I've listed, please please understand that people are not coming after you because of jealousy or to annoy you or bait you or anything of that nature, it's because you've slighted people intentionally or not, you've said things that are just needlessly confrontational or insulting ("I am the co-captain of AWF with Seth", "We OFFICIALLY support Stormcrow bringing the Euro title over here") Dress it up however you please but the end result is it's not very nice and it's rubbing many people the wrong way, causing them to lash out which in turn is clearly affecting your emotional and mental health in an extremely negative manner, it's a vicious cycle and I'm glad this thread was made Mongo because we get to talk about it while doing our best to leave ego's at the door so that hopefully this repeat cycle fueled by stubbornness can actually get solved. This went on longer than I would have liked for the sake of trying to be thorough, I'll finish by saying I genuinely would like a community in which we can shoot the shit and say whatever to one another without the fear that it will be read into and taken personally or that we'll be dog-piled for saying anything at all and can't speak up about it without the worry of ridicule. But in saying that this second discord idea is, to be frank, awful. I am saying this to anyone who supports it that trying to separate the servers under a fairly flimsy justification of having an "official" and "un-official" server is going to only complete the divide we're already feeling, it's the last thing that would help anyone as everyone retreats into their own echo chamber without ever reaching a resolution with the other and sucking the enjoyment, maybe quickly maybe slowly, out of a niche hobby we're all united by in our enjoyment. I'm Drag, my dad hates me, le crab has arrived Thank you Drag. I enjoyed reading this. I want to touch on why we Dust put Caff in jail and we didn’t do something as quickly to Rob. Dust may have been on the radio chat, I don’t know. If he was he didn’t understand what was happening until after the fact. What we saw, multiple admins, was Caff lashing out in text and so he got jailed. When we realized Rob was also in the wrong because of what he was saying we took action, but he’d already logged off so no one could tell. We then discussed at length what to do with Rob and de-admined him and muted him server wide for the weekend too cool off. Looking back he was more wrong and if we could go back and take swifter action against him we would, but unfortunately we can’t. Yeah full disclosure I was at a bar when I saw this going down. I alerted the other admins in our chat as soon as I saw it kickoff by a simple comment. I acted on it initially based on what I saw. Only admin in the voice chat was Mongo so if someone should've immediately muted Rob... However, what we saw was one person lashing out at multiple people, and I felt the need to step in and squash it before it devolved further. Honestly didn't even know Rob was the admin you were talking about in the text since Steve, Mongo and myself were the only ones posting there. It wasn't until shortly after that Scorps and I got the full story from yourself, Mongo, and a couple others that chimed in, and within 5-10 minutes of removing you from the toxic environment, the other had left for the night but we acted on him as well, and well... he's out of the discord at the moment. Was this the best course of action to take? I don't know. Honestly I can't think of a better course of action for myself to take, and I stand by it. Both parties were disciplined and I did what I thought was best for everyone, not just the parties involved, last night. I like to think I'm a fair person, and yeah Rob was an admin as well, but Rob and Caff aren't above anyone and we don't play favorites. All the discord admins are upset with the entire situation and we have all agreed that Rob was in the wrong, but Caff wasn't innocent either. Really our only options were let it go or seperate the two, and while Mongo expressed that he wanted you two to play it out in the chat, Scorps and I have received enough DMs over lesser items and a couple individuals, an active party included, have complained about a lack of action from the admins to begin with. Like someone said before, everyone wants the admins to do something unless that something affects them themselves. We did what was best for everyone at the time and now we're here, on a platform where we can actually have a constructive discussion.
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Post by Drago on Sept 29, 2019 11:53:32 GMT -5
...it feels like bad decision making is directly related to being in the discord while drunk...?
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Post by Drago on Sept 29, 2019 11:56:30 GMT -5
Okay, I was going to stay out of this so I didn't get any repercussions from it, but I need to say this. I love AWF and the other feds in the network. But Caffrey since you joined AWF you have been the cause of their problems, let me explain something when you go telling outsiders personal XHF Network business personally my business to people that could have been new members to the Network and to my fed PSW because of your personal vendetta against me that not only makes you look bad but makes AWF look bad and the XHF Network look bad and I won't explain how just think about it. Then you want to complain about my AIW championship that I can cash in for an Xcrown title shot saying you refuse to allow me to cash it in because it would be a cotton candy title shot. Another example of your personal vendetta against me. And just think about it there have been other championships cashed in against you personally with less time as a championship or fed. So don't act like your innocent or that everyone is targetting you. You want everyone to get along and stop going against you then chill out and actually change not just put on a show. For what it’s worth, your reputation was shared with me by someone else. Of all things to be considered “business”, plagiarism is kind of a big deal to know that I don’t think should be swept under the rug??? That isn’t “personal business” that’s kinda network wide business.
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Post by jamesmueller on Sept 29, 2019 12:07:56 GMT -5
...it feels like bad decision making is directly related to being in the discord while drunk...? probably not aimed at me but just for the record I was sober and actually drove home shortly after this all started.
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Post by Drago on Sept 29, 2019 12:35:42 GMT -5
As for the dram and toxicity around here, you are the cause of a lot of it and so is Drago with her attitude. Mood. Ganja is almost exclusively known for weed. Also, you aren't helping the case calling us 'blacks', my guy. Also, others using similar things are proooooooobably racist, so them being racist isn't helping the case towards you being racist? uhh
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Post by Drago on Sept 29, 2019 13:09:42 GMT -5
See did I say other races were using that gimmick no, as for being racist I'm not, and as for saying blacks at least I'm not going around saying the N-word like some people like to do none stop thinking it's funny, cool or edgy. No, I said that so it's not to be rude or anything I have family that is black if you must know. So unless you're going to tell everyone who has a character of a different race than what they are in real life they are racist than get off my damn back about my characters. They are a friendly fun-loving team just having fun go around the network and dissect some of the other characters. I'm here to have fun and enjoy what I have left of life not be attacked by you or Caffrey or anyone else about everything I do or say. and I owned up to it and I apologized and I have busted my ass off trying to make up for it Yes I made a mistake. And for what to still have people go behind my back and talk shit and sabotage me. But yeah I love this game and this network so I stick around and I'm still loyal as Hell to it and to my feds and to the guys I call my friends even if they don't consider me one. So if you don't like me or don't want to mess with me then don't talk to me don't message me and I will do the same and we can be adults about this and just enjoy our efedding lives. But all of this negativity has to stop Caffrey has to be allowed to speak his mind as well but he needs to do it in a way that isn't negative or hurtful and we all need to start thinking more about the Network as a whole instead of individual feds or characters if we want this place to survive the long run. Because if everyone stops and thinks about it every fed is made up of the same handlers so if we all split then everyone fails. It kinda feels like your ideology + lived experience is reflected when you use chars who aren't white, like they're tropes and cartoonish? It feels like you don't have the understanding or nuance to use such chars. You don't have to be black to have a black character, but it feels like you don't have the depths to understand why some of the stuff is problematic? Like, yeah, I said the n word. I'm black and I had a bad attitude. Simultaneously, if someone says 'this is kinda offensive' about one of my chars, I can listen and understand. The fact that when someone says your chars are racist caracatures with stuff like "We got our first contact high as "The Ganja Connection" flew away with the victory, leaving the fans and us wanting more.", or them all being black men with dreadlocks, or the fact that they have no depth or personality OTHER than 'i smoke weed'. I see this with your Convicts as well. Also black people don't use osmosis. You don't get less racist by our presence permeating into your skin, whether in your friend group, family, or dating pool. Calling us 'blacks' still makes me picture you as some old, out of date, white guy trying to RP people he doesn't understand as 'real' or 'complete'. If you're unable to listen and process any critique about why your chars are offensive or racist and instead have to deflect to 'i've got black family' or 'im not racist you're racist' or 'at least im not doing this' then uh... Maaaaaaaaaaybe don't.
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Post by anthonycaffrey on Sept 29, 2019 13:19:07 GMT -5
On the whole thinking of the place as a whole thing:
Yeah, in a way, that’s what I was doing. It would have greatly served you, sure, if they all just came along, but if you had plagiarized or done something they had viewed as racist, that would have put a permanent end to the whole idea, probably.
I hate talking about this, but that’s where I stand on the issue.
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Post by ForeverKuroi on Sept 29, 2019 13:31:14 GMT -5
For one AIW had more than 2 shows, but that's not the point the rules state it needs to be a legit title, and fed and has to be a dead fed and all have been proven. So it's able to be cashed in if I want to. But other than that the whole plagiarizing thing happened once with someone's else's work which I admitted too. The first time in AXW I wrote one roleplay and used it for two feds at the same time and forgot to change a couple of words so it looked bad but it was my work, but it was still wrong to be lazy and not do two different roleplays. As for the most recent thing, I thought it was one of them copy past question things to advertise your fed post since I have seen more than one fed posting it, my fault I forgot to take their name off of it. It wasn't meant to be some big scandal like your making it out to be. As for the dram and toxicity around here, you are the cause of a lot of it and so is Drago with her attitude. And as far as my Ganja Connection you must be the racist one to jump to the conclusion just because they are black and smoke week that it's racist, so Caffrey I guess in your mind all blacks are weed smoking thugs. Is that your thoughts on blacks? And as For "Ganja Lives Matter" there are all kinds of saying's going around using that gimmick so I guess it's all racist. You do know I actually defend you most of the time even though you talk shit about my 90% of the time and I know you think you're better than me, and you think you're smarter than me. Trust me when I say just because I don't always fight back or argue everything doesn't make me weak or stupid, but yeah sometimes I do make stupid mistakes or say stupid things because I allow my emotions to get the better of me which I think you do a lot of times as well. So sit back and think for a moment and reflect on what you need to do or say next. I've already gone into the problem with your reddit post but I want to reiterate, because I'm not sure you're getting it. Your problem wasn't that you forgot to delete Trinity. Your problem was you did this in the first place. If you want to be a good fed head, don't steal and use as your own. And here's the issue with The Ganja Connection. You're a white guy portraying an incredibly black stereotype, the picture of stereotypes for blacks, using a variation of Black Lives Matter to ascribe as to their identity. The sayings are all bad. The variations are all bad. All Lives Matter? Bad. Blue Lives Matter? Bad. It's bad for people to do this. It's even worse for someone who doesn't understand black people's struggles to essentially mock them. And before we move forward, Michael Storm isn't a stereotype of blacks at all (I actually use moments of minority status from my life as motivation for Storm RPs) and MCD essentially focuses on childish behaviors rather than him being black. EDIT: I didn't see Drago's post. Sorry about that. I also forgot to mention. Duke, it really doesn't help you at all when you're trying to use this from the sense that you've had several moments from the past that are closely connected to really bigoted people or things they use. With statements such as we shouldn't use narcan to save lives or likening gay people to pedophiles, it doesn't seem like you're truly sensitive to some of the issues people face and you're mocking them from a position of privilege.
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